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"Alt-right is weaponizing "outrage culture". Clever Girl."

Dr. Monkey's Posts

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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Come back into the community’s murderous bosom, dope ass blob.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
We also haven't seen in a minute. Or .
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Y'all go out and get your friends. Bring us new friends.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
you're one to talk
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
jesus god no, not this one
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
oh man Fanto's gonna evil us up
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Okay friends, Sorian and I start our hydra Monday and we need an AVATAR. Who will design something terrible and wonderful for us?
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
come see if you can play more than a phase before you're killed. :D, come play!, you know you wanna slide off replacements.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
that was me I labeled the backpack
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
I asked Sorian to sign up for a hydra with me at Mafia Universe, which I think will be our ultimate form OR a total disaster, but it should be at least a thing to watch. But! Maybe other people would be interested in signing up? Go check it out.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
So, y'know, mini signups are still open... bring a friend, play with some boxes, and then also kill them. The friends. Maybe the boxes? Find out in the game!
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
So nice to see all those UTC tags!
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
You shoooooould
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
I’m gonna be back so you can move me to game for Death Stranding.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
you’re not my real dad
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
p.s. fatdog we love you and your humor but let's just do regular pronouns, ok? plz+thx oh wait, you didn't put fatdog as a nickname. D:
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Daylight savings is dumb but I don't think it matters too much if you're off by an hour for this purpose.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Sorian, LP, loki, please go make the thing.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Dishonored 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>literally anything in the Deus Ex verse
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Next will be Stardew Valley! I think. I'm on half break from scheduling so uh... I could be wrong. Welcome, new person, to our lovely community! Let us know if you need questions, want help, need a mentor (as above) or whatever!
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
lol yes let's do this
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
you gotta sign up for real!! Everyone, please use UTC times for signups! she/her UTC -5 nickname: monkey Death Stranding replacement list since I'm about to go on a trip. /cry
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT6| How To Get Away With Murder (Sign up for Scooby Doo mafia! New players welcome!)
Hi hi, everyone, and welcome to our new Official Thread! This is our sixth season in here, and we're ready with more games of deception and murder for you! If you were ever curious about the Mafia game and wanted to give it a shot, jump in! Our community is friendly and welcoming, and you'll surely make friends along the way, and we have help and support for new players interested in getting into mafia. Mafia, also known as Werewolf, is a famous social deduction game pitting two teams against each other: Town and Mafia. Mafia players know who everyone in their team is, while Town players only know their own alignment. The game is divided in two phases: Day and Night. During the Day, all players discuss and decide on someone to voted out of the game. During the Night, the Mafia secretly chooses another person to be removed. Town wins when all the Mafia players are gone, and Mafia wins when they match or outnumber the Town players. Playing a game with us is very simple. When we are accepting signups for a game, all you have to do is fill out this form and post it as a reply to this thread. New players always get priority!If you wish, you can request a mentorship from one of our veteran players to guide you through your first game (more on that in the following posts). Please use other players' indicated pronouns when provided. We want our community to be inclusive, and we take this seriously. A Mafia game is a significant time commitment. Our games can take about a month to play, and you'll be expected to post and contribute to the ongoing discussion to help your team win. Finally, don't forget to follow ResetEra's ToS and Member Etiquette. Though this is a game about lies and deception and things can get heated, this is just a game at the end of the day and we're all here to have fun. But most importantly, welcome! Through various games, gambits, jokes, wins, losses, upsets, betrayals and triumphs we have formed a community of individuals who have become something like a family. We hope you will join us in our love of this game and give it a shot. You never know what might happen.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I love y'all too, except turmoil who said I should have died. :< jk, I love turmoil too. Neutral was truly the most fun I've ever had. No pressure to do anything but slither around. Though it's hilarious that I tried to help town to make up for poor Maol by erasing scum and actually erased scum.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
ALAS, we do not have a like button. ALSO! Natiko, the flavor in this game was excellent. Thank you so much for this.
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Thread Did your parents "check" your Halloween candy before they allowed you to eat it? Do you check your kids'?
I check for things they need to be careful about, like no jawbreakers for younger child, informing them this other thing is a toy and not a gummy (elder kid took a bite out of a squishy ball before I could take it ), things like that.
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Thread Underworld (2003) is such a guilty pleasure
Almost everything feels like something cobbled together from something else - the Matrixy things, the combat styles, the World of Darkness flavor - so much pastiche and it results in what is definitely a fun, easily watchable movie. I rewatched it not along ago and it's still entertaining.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Meatwad is saying they are NOT a weak hider but the actions don't make any sense regardless. Gorlak, as much as I would LOVE a Kalor vote there aren't many people here, I think. Maybe 5ish.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The last piece of my role is that I could not ask about anyone who was on the winning vote - so d1, anyone who voted for turmoil, d2 for Maol, etc. You can see why I would think revealing this could impact play, since someone might slide onto the winning wagon to avoid scrutiny, but if the role is essentially useless it doesn’t matter. If I happen to die in the night (I doubt it, but on the off chance), please, do not give Kalor a pass tomorrow. He has avoided everything in this game. He’s kept promising reads and re-reads and has not delivered. He is clearly connected to Meatwad. His play during this phase raises a billion red flags. He's scum, he's scum with Meatwad. He, like Meatwad, did not play to his claimed role because they are fake claims.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
And if the whole scum team is here they can swing a last minute wagon switch if they want to and if their numbers are higher than we suspect.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Please look into all my posts on Kalor tomorrow. I had several.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Top scum: Meatwad Kalor I've posted numerous times on the connections between them. When Meatwad flips scum, Kalor should absolutely be the next one to go. Top town: Gorlak Fandorin Fran if Meatwad is scum The rest, from towniest to scummiest: Kopite kitsunelaine malus Zeke Fat4All You, Kopite, I feel okay about but not enough to put into top town; you seem to be actively considering things and reassessing as needed and it doesn't seem agenda-driven. The kitsunelaine read is almost completely a meta read since despite having a huge post count, she's actually weighed in on very little, but her actions in this game are squarely in her town meta. malus is probably the one in the bottom set I feel best about. Zeke moves up if Meatwad and Kalor are scum as I suspect; I would consider him much more townie at that point. Fat4All ends up there due to PoE; I don't have much to tie him to here. He has seemed relatively engaged, though I don't have anything that screams alignment either way and he's been kinda lackluster on the Meatwad point.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Fran, you think there's both a hider and a commuter in this game?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Going back through some things:Says in the special rules for this particular game that they did get "full fake claims."
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Fran said there are two versions and linked to the versions. The one you're claiming is the far less common "normal" hider, when the "weak" (it's not) hider is more common. None of this relates to the game being bastard at all.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
oh it was a whole exchange, okay:So let's think about this. You're Meatwad. Various people have been sumreading you since D1, which means you are among the least likely people in the game to get NKed and if you are targeted, it's likely going to be with a roleblock or an investigation. Neither of which is a problem if you are a Hider; you're just blocked, so what, or you get cleared. So if you are Meatwad here, why do you hide at all if you have a choice? Why do you not just soak the roleblock or the check? By hiding behind Fanto, a town Meatwad was literally opening up the game to a second kill. And I don't believe Meatwad hides behind Fran ever, considering his posts. Why do you hide behind Fanto, who is widely townread and has been N1ed before? Why do you then hide behind Fran, whom you've said you can't really read? None of the actions make sense with what he says in these posts. The role itself doesn't make sense in our meta on top of it, but that's a secondary consideration.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
There was some discussion of him today before claims, but yeah, not so much Fando's arguments. I feel like a lot of thoughts in general that have been brought to the table by various folks have been missed, glossed over, etc. Speaking of Fando, we're on the same page here.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
And those links Fran shared? They include advice about how to play as a hider. If Meatwad was actually a hider here and actually thinking about playing as a hider, it's not like he doesn't have resources at hand. Meatwad is not a hider.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Using it doesn't mean scum at all. The way you claim to have used it, with your position in this game, makes no sense whatsoever unless your only goal is self-preservation and even then your choice of Fran N2 doesn't really fit - nor does Fanto N1. It doesn't fit with your own reads. It doesn't fit with a townie approach to the game.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Does this sound like the person you hide behind? Especially without a breadcrumb?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is possibly. One of them certainly is. But I doubt it's both. I suppose there is an outlier chance that Fran is teamed with Meat and this was a final effort to distance but that seems unlikely to me. It seems more likely that it was in response to Meatwad claiming hider since generally hiders don't have a choice in our meta and so it's not like shots returned kinda thing.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh, not yet but you're sure laying the groundwork just in case it becomes viable.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I want to shine a mega spotlight on this post because this is Kalor trying to promote me as a counter-wagon while giving himself a reason to jump off. Kalor has not pushed me as scumread until some light things today when he reacted to my questions and posts to and about him. He's sitting on his weak Meatwad vote - which I also pointed out - and would love a reason to move to a counterwagon, especially if we really are staring down the barrel of LYLO tomorrow. Meatwad's claim is more than messy; it's scummy and inconsistent and like Kalor not playing as vanilla, Meatwad hasn't played in any way that a hider would play, nor does his role make sense the way he's claimed it. They are both scum, they are partners, and this post is tactical. Do not let it slide.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It's possible. We rarely use those kinds of hiders and Natiko in particular likes the weak modifier, but that isn't to say he couldn't have done something different here. But there was a post in my quote bank I wanted to answer from Meat anyway, let me get it.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh, I just got to this. I guess yay at least that I'm reading the activity correctly? I understand the desire to play even if you can't give it your all. And regardless, despite everyone riding my ass for "defending" you, I don't think it's votable in the current game state. Feels like you're doing a hell of a lot more than some, so. I think there's a hella big difference between defending and reading the game state and trying to sus out motivations in an attempt to solve.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Gorlak, come on, man. Don't do this shit. Ketkat had 14 posts. Never did I come close to indicating you shouldn't look. I said Ket didn't have a chance to do much. By all means, go back and look. Look at her posts, look at how she said she was in a bad mood and not really into playing. But look also at the fact that several people had filed her as town already d1 - she was a protect in a couple protect/investigate/kills (I remember, I was one) and someone even said (Fandorin?) that she'd be a good night kill target.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, I have a ton of other quotes in my notes but this is pretty massive. Meatwad refuses to claim for a whole like ten posts' worth of stuff, accuses Gorlak of an agenda (what? Asking for a claim from someone on the block is NAI in almost any situation it is well within Gorlak's general approach to play so I dunno what this is), and then rolls over with almost no pressure and says it doesn't matter anyway. If it didn't matter, why not claim? Why not claim on your own? If you're a hider, you're protected from NK anyway so it actually doesn't matter if you claim. This makes sense. Add in Fran's claim and it looks like Meatwad's claim is absolutely bullshit. Additionally, a scumMeat flip would essentially clear Fran. possibly all this above has been said already - I'm still two pages behind - but this is my immediate reaction here. The "I can hide behind scum" coming after "I avoid being NK unless I hide behind scum" is inconsistent internally AND with general hider roles but I'll guess that's already been resolved.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Y'all been busy. Catching up but ping me if there's something immediate I need to look at, since it'll take a minute to go through all this.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm still WAY behind and I gotta run afk for about 30 minutes. I'll be back as soon as I can.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yep, I agree, and I think it looks like deflection from Meatwad. I don't think scum does avoid the Maol lynch. Maybe one to maintain spread, maybe 50/50 if four, but there's scum on that vote, too. So potential scum saying "no, scum would never vote there, don't look at me, jazzhands, nothing to see here" looks like misdirection. It's sure not analysis If there's a vote that's easily justified, that anyone could get on without much of a read, scum will be on it. It looks like there'a Fran claim I need to catch up to so I'm behind, but I wanted to get these posts quick from right around when I went to bed. Fran's lack of engagement does stick out. I don't just mean lower activity - sometimes folks have stuff going on. But for Fran to get this far into the game without really sinking his teeth into something is very unusual. He hasn't seemed particularly ruffled or stubborn about anything. It's not even a matter of anything looking fake or forced or anything - there's just no real deep engagement. So while he's questioning things and relatively involved in the thread, there's a certain something that seems to be missing. But I wouldn't weigh it at the same level of abject avoidance I see in Kalor, Meatwad, and to a lesser degree kitsunelaine (largely because her town meta supports ignoring huge sections of the thread, so it's not particularly alarming or suspicious). It's just a certain missing something and it could as easily be RL stuff as scum.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Wouldn't it prove Meatwad was lying about his role? Both because Fran is untargetable and because both are very unlikely to exist in the same game. Obviously a scumFran would work the other way with Meatwad but I think Meatwad is way more likely to be scum here. Anyway back, back to catching up.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Just came to say I’ll be around in about 2.5 hours. I see that one post so I’ll say my top two town are Gorlak and Fandorin. To briefly answer your question, Gorlak, Fandorin seems very relaxed and chill here - and I’ve played with him as scum, and this doesn’t strike me as scum Fando at all - less concerned about how he comes across by far. I also think he’s focused on what he sees as solving and I think in the case of Meatwad he’s right. I can answer more in depth when I get back.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
And if you want to call that me "defending" Fran, so be it. Have a blast. But I'm not interested in seeing this game end without catching scum. I highly doubt Fran's it. I doubt Fandorin's it. I'm pretty certain Gorlak isn't it. kits is being ~whatever~ and not really engaging with the thread, but I think she'd try to play a little more tightly if she was scum here.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Here are the questions I have before I go to bed: - Can we please get a new readlist or read order from you? I don't care if there's details, just even a would vote/would not. I'd kinda like to see Kopite's breakdown, too, and Fran, and Fandorin. has sort of dropped off the radar. Throw him in there. I have another interview in the morning so I may not be back until the afternoon.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Shit, I said it myself, Fran NOT being all over me this game has given me pause, too. But he's been more chill generally than usual - than he ever is as either scum OR town. Either way, I do not think Fran is the solution today.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I mean, that’s how Fran operates. It’s how he talks. But he was definitely engaged, much more so than many, and actively participating in efforts to solve. There are reasons not to fully trust Fran in this game, but his engagement with this topic seems like a weird fixation. There are people actively avoiding conversation, posting absolute fluff, and not engaging and you’re focused on this. I do NOT get it.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
But you're totally fine with how someone like Kalor approached it? What about how Kalor addressed his role being changed? I ask because I did answer a ton of questions about my role. It dominated huge parts of the thread. Fran himself posted about my role like 14-15 times; you cherrypicked a few posts. I think you're tunneling a bit here - you have decided I'm most likely scum so now you're trying to fit things around that worldview rather than actually looking at what's what. Considering Fran's been one of the few to question you, there might be a touch of OMGUS in there too. It doesn't seem malicious - you're going through stuff so I don't particularly read it as scummy here - but you're missing some things.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm trying to figure out how you say Fran discussed my role very sparingly when there are people in this game who barely addressed it at all. For instance, here's all that Kalor had to say about my role that I could find:Kalor believes it. That's really all. Look at the difference. Fran is pushing and trying to figure stuff out. While I can't say what his motivation is for sure, but he certainly looks more invested in trying to fit this role and what I'm doing with it into the game as we can see it than Kalor, who just says "yep, okay, sure." He did spend a little more effort justifying a vote on Maol outside of my results, but still lackluster effort. But there he was, happy to vote for Maol. The posts you quote from Fran, though, and the rest of Fran's d2 posts, show progression. He started out "yep, that's a red check" and as we spent time hammering out the role, his needle moved. He considered things. Compare again to Kalor, who keeps posting the same wishy washy middle ground "reads" that don't say anything at all. If we are at risk of bring in LYLO tomorrow at all, if there's even a chance, Fran's not a good target today. While there's a scum chance there, there's a far better chance in Meatwad and Kalor.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I would say Gorlak questioned me most, but Fran would be in the second tier of folks who asked questions. You're cherrypicking.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This post is so weird that it cements things for me - I'm happy to vote for Meatwad here today. I think a small part of me would still prefer Kalor, but I think Kalor's noncommittal vote is a bus in an effort to save himself. Meatwad is almost a foregone conclusion; if he doesn't go today, he'll go tomorrow, I think, so might as well bus while you can. But this reach toward a neutral Fandorin in a game where Fandorin has had ample reason to focus outside main trains really comes screaming out of nowhere. Fandorin hasn't fixated on Meatwad; he's actually been very reasonable all game and if that's where his votes landed, there's enough backing it up in his content that the votes are, I think, more a case of game state than a true tunnel.
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Thread (Round 3) What is a POSITIVE controversial game opinion you hold?
I'd argue this honor actually goes to the breakdown DLC in the first State of Decay, but since 2 was basically an extension of that, I can high five you all the same.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Sorry, there was no actual text in 's post, I guess, so it didn't "quote" her. That was to her.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is super disingenuous, but a great way to mention that I'm talking about something without actually discussing any of the context around it, or content. A+++ for manipulative framing, I suppose. Seems to me it's something inherent in Fat4All's role but something that happened to Maol, and so by extension, Kalor, I'd guess (so someone else's role). But then again, if Fatdog's is related to game conditions, maybe what happened to Maol and Kalor is, too? We just don't have enough information to figure how it balances or what could be causing it. Until Fatdog clarified, I don't think I would have considered that what happened to Maol and Kalor was anything other than from a role - someone changing them.
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Thread The best plot twists
Not a plot twist as such, not in the way it's being described in this thread, but the way some of the choice aspects in Life Is Strange played out shook me, like really shook me, because I was trying so hard to do good and things didn't play out that way. Spoiler about near-end events in LIS:
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm re-reading both Kalor and Meatwad now - I think my vote will be between the two of them today. But I'm starting with Kalor because he pushed back and said he townread VA/Zeke until today and that was not the sense that I had throughout the game so I wanted to pursue it a little more. Kalor starts the game by pushing on VA's "I'm town!" post.So Kalor pushed on a little thing and then kinda overexplained it. The second post was after Fran questioned him. This post strikes me as weird. I keep going back and reading around it because it sounds like it's in conversation or a continuation, right? But it's not. It comes right after a vote count post and all I can think is that suddenly Kalor felt like he needed to justify his vote. But this doesn't strike me as a townread on VA? Just "I'm not voting there right now." Than on to day 2 - this is him being asked about Fran. Thing is, I don't get the sense Kalor has felt strongly about anything at all. Later, Gorlak pushes on Kalor with a reminder that he promised to reread Fran and we get this:So he didn't feel strongly enough about Fran to vote there - then later he has no read on Fran at all. There's a difference there, a shift in language. These are not the same things. So we're back to this. I do not get the impression Kalor felt particularly strongly about VA/Zeke. There's one post putting them into a town category and then otherwise it's back and forth. And with the justification post to Zeke, this is what we get. But he hasn't voted for Meatwad, either, despite this suspicion.But what has Kalor found? Do we know how he feels? This is why I pointed out his soft vote on Zeke. It's not Kalor's style. He's not using his votes as prods, pressure, or weapons; he's not even really putting them on his scum reads. So that move today came out of nowhere. Certainly there's not a vote on Meatwad. Why not? He's laid the groundwork for it. He seems to scumread Meatwad. I think they're partners.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Maybe if I switch, I don't know. We're almost to original day end time and we still have three people under ten posts and two prime candidates not voting or engaging.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
That's what I've been saying. Unless there's also a neutralizer, I don't know how this game supports an arsonist-style role. But unless the handprint is this game's version of a fruit vendor, it does .
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Ket didn't have a ton of strong positions before they took her out. I think you're right and there's one unexpected person. And while on the face I agree with kits that a mass claim could be good after this phase, if scum got fake roles and everything, that makes it a lot harder. We DO know that some things are unlikely to get claimed though (like the handprinter) so that'll be something to go on. The hope for me is that today at least we should get some good vote data.
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(25659011)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Are you asking me why I don't suspect someone else? Or why I think he's the only one? As for the first, he's the only one who came out with it. I have no idea what's out there. People have been pretty cagey. I haven't even noticed any particular breadcrumbs, so I'd guess there's some shit going on. What I do find unusual is that almost no one commented on the fact that Kalor didn't reveal any details about his role change (I guess it's better than hated) and only sort of mentioned it and that no one followed up on that or on Fatdog's posts, which took place over two phases. If someone did, I sure didn't see it. I guess that would lean toward maybe someone else with a strange role who doesn't want to call attention, maybe. But there are a lot of details and behaviors that are just going... undiscussed.
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(25658794)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Almost nothing in between for kits. Feels like Kopite is actually doing something, though I'd love to see full reads or even a ranking or something. Truly dunno. With my role and Maol's role and whatever Fat4All is claiming, it's possible there's some stuff that's totally made up for this game. For instance, the condition that changes Fat4All could be the number of people who are marked. WHO KNOWS. We have nothing to go on whatsoever. And that sucks.
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(25657019)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It gets worse if handprint thing IS an arsonist. Or if people start falling over dead from like a delayed kill or something. My worst fear is that we actually started with a scum team of one or something and it's slowly turning y'all scum. I think you'd roll straight to the end and victory. But I think that's tinfoil-hat level worry. I think our odds today are good that we will hit scum. The 24-hour extension means some of these people who've been under a rock all weekend have some time to do something. But it also gives another 24 hours for scum to strategize.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Hey, you got handprinted, maybe they're just all waiting for you to explode or something.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yeah, I think it's the closest I've ever come to trying to bodyblock a scummate. He had an extra kill or something we hadn't used and we were trying to stop it. It also failed, for him and for me - he went and then I went.
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(25656303)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It's not though. You did something today you haven't done all game. You haven't moved a vote prior to this. You haven't really taken a stand. You're coasting. That vote looked opportunistic, capitalizing on Zeke replacing VA and after you got pushback from multiple people, you dropped it.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It's been your discussion, kits. I'm just trying to figure out why you won't discuss balance around an arsonist-style role with me.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
But... why Maol? He was already acting pretty weird. Why not target someone totally unlikely to ever get voted out? This is what I don't get about these elaborate theories. I don't understand why I would go all out to protect Meatwad or why I would go all out to target Maol in particular. Not only are neither of these strategies anything I've done in the past - the closest I've ever come to putting myself on the line for a scummate was Blarg in GoT because he did have a power we wanted to use and I've never attempted a wild gambit, much less anything on the scale of what happened here. I've always been anti-gambit. But apparently in this game I am suddenly the mafia mastermind of gambits and bold plays, all to protect Meatwad and kill Maol because reasons. From my perspective, it feels like bizarro world shit. I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be dismissive, it's just wild to me though it's not like you have a window into my head. But let me ask you a question here about roles and play approaches. So you believe all this is possible. Do you believe Kalor was vanilla? Do you think Kalor has played like a vanilla in this game?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Catching up but feeling kinda sick today so I may be slow.
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(25644288)

Thread What do feelings feel like?
Hey, man, I don't want to feel you a line of bullshit or anything but I really want to rally for the opposite. Life can be hard. It can be hard for a long time. I spent about ten years thinking a lot of things were hopeless - that I was just digging a bigger hole and would never get out - but I found some lifelines finally and things really did get better. I think I can speak for my person and report that his issues got better, too. I know you said upthread that therapy is expensive and it really is. I hear you. But sometimes there are community resources you may be able to take advantage of that are much less expensive or free. It might be a little thing like a support group but little things can really help sometimes.
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(25644206)

Thread What do feelings feel like?
Have you always been this way, OP, or did something change? My spouse, way back when we were just friends, used to swear up and down that he didn't feel anything, that feelings were stupid, he was emotionless, he had killed all his feelings, I don't know, he talked about it any time anything serious came up, and then one day he just opened up and we talked a lot about past trauma and what had caused him to harden himself. If this is nothing like you I apologize for projecting that on you - it's my only real experience with something like this.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is consistent with what you said before but since you were really open about it here, I don't think it had really hit me before. What you were saying, I mean. So, not fishing, just trying to make sure I'm on the same page - certain game conditions/states happen and you change? Interesting. A self change vs: a forced change initiated by another. I do agree that any change is unlikely to change alignment, especially in a small game.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yeah, it was a really weak vote, without much conviction behind it, especially for someone who's been on that tip for a few days. How's your catchup going? Any other thoughts?
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(25642677)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The real question I have is if the focus on VA/Zeke from Kalor is legit or not. Like is Kalor just a townie tunneling a bit? If he's scum, is he really trying to get VA/Zeke out? Could that be the big bus with Meatwad as a little bus? I'd love some opinions on that if anyone else is around. Because for all this, Kalor has not voted for either of them prior to today: he voted for turmoil and then Maol. Only today has he voted for Zeke.
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(25644487)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This runthrough of Kopite on Meatwad makes me want to take him off my list, at least for today. If Kalor's scum, I don't know if I see a scummate going this hard against him. Not impossible but seems unlikely. His progression on Meatwad is okay, too; he scumreads him but wanted to see the Maol flip yesterday, which I think is not a bad look here. He also called out Kalor's inconsistencies early, as you can see below. Don't really have other commentary on the first two posts:This below is one of the few that I'd sideeye a little, though. Maybe because I don't know what he means here by Kalor's interactions being "off" with Zeke. It seems like it's actually more targeted against Zeke there than Kalor, but starts with Kalor? Kopite, what do you think of fatdog's extensions now on his role? He's still being vague (and that could be a legit position; there's no reason for him to claim here) but you hypothesize him as a potential neutral here. This is also one of the few situations in which I could see an arsonist here^^ but two scum is a big hill to climb. Again, these two seem to go pretty hard against Kalor. Seems legit but if Kopite backs off for any weak reasoning I think I'd watch; otherwise I'm inclined to think it's real. This one's weird. Are you saying you think the three of us could be a team? Or were we just the people you were going to look at?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Anyway, since no one is active in here, I guess I'll go to bed? I'd give Meatwad the treatment I gave the others today but he's not been active due to work and honestly I'm really more interested in what people have been doing around him as one of the only other vote candidates we've had so far.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The pool of potential targets changes every day and d1 if I could have I would have asked about someone else. It's why I needed several people to do "objective truth" posts if we were going to test yesterday. I didn't know who would be available.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This isn't everyone in my pool yet, but it's a start. There's actually been very little about Meatwad one way or another from this contingent in this post - malus, kitsunelaine, and Kalor. Kalor has the most but there's no - pardon, I can't help it - meat to it. malus felt Meatwad was inactive ;that was about it for reasons to vote. Fair for d1 but nothing really there. There was another one in here that maybe I didn't grab - or maybe you can only hold so many quotes at once? about malus thinking Kopite and Meatwad were pretty interchangeable early game. Then we get to today-Not a lot on Meatwad but Meatwad seems to be a side consideration for malus. Some of this is just summary, some of it is go either way, but there does seem to be a little work around Fran and VA/Zeke, and malus outside of all this was posting some helpful information to Zeke. I come away from looking at malus on Meatwad with two thoughts: I think it's a little strange that malus has been light on Meatwad, who has definitely been in contention off and on, but I also feel very slightly better about him overall. kitsunelaine on the other hand has almost nothing about Meatwad at all. He gets mentioned when she lists all players but this is really the only read I found:So maybe she buys other people on Meatwad but she has no real thoughts about him whatsoever. This is as light as malus but without the rest of what makes me feel better about malus overall. This is in line with my overall impression about kits in this game - she's very focused on her role and her idea for this neutral and not a whole lot else. I will say, as a counterpoint, if kits is telling the truth about her role, that could cause some weird tunnel vision; she may feel like her main job is to find the oddity. I don't know. But it does stand out a little. Kalor has a lot more than anyone else in the group I was looking at. But almost all of it is tied to VA/Zeke:Here's the first tie to VA/Zeke ^^Here, later, VA is town - this is a progression I may want to read up on because it shifts again later. But the third bullet is what's really interesting to me. malus, Meatwad, and Fantomas. Fantomas we know is town. malus we don't know. But we do know Meatwad has been a focus - putting him in the middle there, with more focus on Fanto even if it's wavery, takes focus OFF the middle name; that's a prime scum tactic (always put your mates in the middle of a list if you're scumreading them so they stick out less).Today we're back to VA/Zeke as scum, not town, so a different read at every point now, and linked again to Meatwad. Note that the vote is on Zeke, not Meatwad. Yeah, there's no way on this planet that the scum team in this game is Gorlak, me, and Meatwad, first of all; Kalor's right about that. Replace Meatwad with VA and it's still a stretch; Gorlak and I being teamed IN GENERAL this game would mean we've spent a huge amount of posts on a fake fight, way more than necessary. This is a huge reach on every level. Interesting that this is twice though that Kalor and Kopite have made similar arguments. But again VA/Zeke is linked to Meatwad but the focus he puts is on VA/Zeke, not Meatwad. And Zeke can't really defend his predecessor either way. Again the tie to VA/Zeke, focus there, and a promise to reread Meatwad at some point. But I think what's most fascinating here is that Meatwad has been on Kalor's radar in some way or another since early game but he's never the focus or the target; there's some vague gesturing that he might be scum but the focus is always elsewhere. I think there's a good chance those two could teamed up together if Meatwad is scum. I feel very strongly about my Kalor scumread here regardless.
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(25638735)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
If someone gave away a hated role and ended up with a role that kills them, why wouldn't Kalor get that today if this is a swap and not an overwrite? If Kalor is town and it's a scum power as you're pointing out. It feels like you're doing very surface analysis here and not thinking things through to conclusions. Kalor, are you dying d4 now?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yeah, I was just thinking about some of this. Meatwad clears up the early trains but I think only really gives us clues at this point IF he is in fact scum with Fran (or obviously is just scum himself). Fran's vote could be a bus vote, or not. What may also be interesting though in terms of Meatwad is who else hasn't said much about him either way. Since he's been the only other real vote contender who's still alive, I've been going back through read posts by various members and collecting some quotes there but it's taking a while.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'll definitely get it done tonight but it's gonna be a minute.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh, I think I missed this one when I was going through earlier. So you really think I would handwave my scummate in an obvious way that would clearly tie us together in the event one of us died but also I could construct an enormously elaborate role just to get Maol voted out for reasons? Because those things don't really go together. One is not great play, especially d1, but I'm "competent" enough to stone cold gambit for three days straight. Seems like a huge risk to get one player voted out. As for the last part, my point was that you were assuming I still felt the same way about Meatwad as I did d1. You didn't ask, you didn't try to question, you just rolled on as though nothing had changed. Why?
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(25639013)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Gorlak and Fandorin are my firmest town reads today. Fandorin has not been very active but his moves from the last two days are very town. Fran I've got back and forth on and I'm really uncertain. I think what I come down to is that unless we want to push hard on d1 EoD, he's probably not the best vote today. I'd really like to see more from him this phase, though. Weekend/vacation may be impacting things but a 10-post Fran is difficult to work with. Similarly I would not be inclined to vote for Fat4All today but I also feel like he hasn't been much presence, though I see he just appeared so maybe that will change. Zeke, I have no idea. I did not feel great about VA and Zeke's far behind. We'll see when he's caught up. The people who have commented on Zeke as a potential vote target today though makes me want to look elsewhere. Kopite I have little read on but suddenly talking about a role "swapper" makes me more than a little curious. My would-vote pool at this point is: malus Meatwad kitsunelaine Kalor (and possibly Kopite) Not in any order, though I suppose kits and malus I'd be less likely to vote for than potentially Kopite, Kalor, or Meatwad. kitsunelaine is mostly because I feel like she's been avoiding real discussion in order to push an idea that has no real foundation under it. It feels like hiding behind emotional reactions and mechanics discussion (speculative mechanics at that) and little else. malus I'm uncertain of - he's had some really helpful posts but I feel like there's some potential sheeping in there and I've seen malus put up those helpful posts as scum before. He's good at hiding. Wouldn't be my first choice but someone to keep an eye on. Meatwad helps resolve lingering issues from previous days and it's definitely been town on him pretty consistently. But I do worry that's an easy thread to follow. Kalor I've not felt great about all game and now just sort of casually dropping "oh also my role was impacted" does not feel like good faith town trying to figure out what's going on. This is where I'm at right now. I gotta do some stuff and then I wanna look at some connections.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Because I do need to reference a particular player, though I don't know if it's considered a "target." I agree there is no evidence there is a swap in play re: the role change power.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
it looks like you have tangled a few threads together re: roles, the switcher discussion that temporarily cropped up d2, and my role. I did not lie about my role. My results, however, have been untrue on 2/2 attempts. We discussed a potential switcher. There is also a power that seems to change roles. Maol's was totally overwritten. Kalor and Kopite seem to think this is a role swapper for some reason. I don't know where they're getting that, though.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
What? You think it was a swapped role? It doesn't seem that way from what Kalor's claiming. What makes you suspect a swap and not just a change or overwrite? Speaking of Kalor, am I the only one who finds this questionable?So apparently you also got hit by the thing that got Maol and you just sort of casually mention it in the middle of the phase? So it's a multi-shot ability. Did it change your role completely like Maol's? Why do you and Kopite think this was a swap situation and not a change?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
For when kits gets back:It's really a very simple thing I've been trying to get you to answer: Do you think there is a neutral who functions like an arsonist when we already had a role like Maol's that removed someone from the game outside of normal voting/NKs? If not, then why are you so convinced it is a neutral? Re: "general use of pocketing": If you're not referring to me but to the thread at large, who do you think is pocketing you? Does that align with your scum reads?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm trying, Gorlak. I've been trying but every time I come into the thread I get hit with questions about my role again, and it takes time to answer and I don't have the kind of time to play that I used to. Then everything I I do is handwaved or ignored. kitsunelaine for instance has ignored everything I've put out there about her proposed neutral theory and no one else has commented either. Why would they? It's easier to just write me off or wrap me up talking about my role. Meanwhile a significant chunk of the game has barely weighed in today. I understand the urge to want to vote me out today. I fucked up yesterday. I get it. But - and I know this but you don’t - killing me just ends that one thread and leaves you, at d4, back at what is essentially square one. It’s as easy to vote for me today as it was for Maol yesterday so your vote data isn’t worth much and after I'm dead you start tomorrow with no real clues or anything else that gets you closer to finding the mafia team. If the handprint person IS some kind of arsonist, too, you’re a step closer to a mass removal of players. I believe this is why Maol tried to caution the thread about automatically going for me today. I believe Gorlak is doing it with the best of intentions; he’s twisted up about what comes down, essentially, to me not playing this role the way he would have. I get that. It’s fine. I think there’s also a seed of doubt there because of d2. I get that, too, and I earned it. Fat4All’s questions are a little different and I also think he’s probably more likely to be town, but I do not feel as certain as I am about Gorlak. The others who are so willing to just immediately get rid of me I would watch and question. What else/where else have they engaged? Are they following the easiest paths? If you do vote me out today, these are at least some trails to follow tomorrow. But I have truly tried to be as transparent and open as possible. My interest in this game is in finding mafia. That’s it. I have no other agenda. I thought, after d1, that I needed a fix on Maol. I asked a question and I presented my results. Tell me, what would you have done? You ask, in a bastard game, with a role PM that seems like a medium but isn’t called a medium, if a player is scum - knowing that the one dead player at the moment, if going off reads, is one more likely to call that player town. You get not-town. What do you do? Let me slow that down. When I asked the question about Maol, . turmoil and Maol were somewhat aligned d1. turmoil was town so I asked if Maol was town. I got very formal investigative results: not aligned with the town. Why would I think that’s more likely to be Natiko than turmoil unless spec had spoilers and Maol was scum? Either way, it seemed to point to a scum Maol, but since it’s a bastard game, I presented it as the check it seemed to be but with caveats. I answered every question about my role. I was not trying to be cagey. Some people didn't like that I opened with the information, but that's how I've played having information that I think will help solve. I didn’t set out to get Maol killed. I set out to get . Yes, I botched the presentation. I haven’t been playing as much lately and I don’t always think as hard about the implications of things unless I’m scum and I know I have to. But the intent was to offer the information I had to town, and that’s what I did. I tried to answer questions. There’s one thing I’ve held back and I swear I would not if I didn’t think it would impact things. So I'll say again: if the consensus is to basically ignore my results (I'll keep asking if I live but really just out of curiosity) then I'm happy to reveal that last part. If I'm gonna die I'll reveal that last part and let y'all weigh it. Until then, I won’t, because it potentially impacts play. I’ve been clear about that the whole time. (Side note: I think now that my role exists to foster paranoia. I don't really see another use for it in this game.) I know we’re in a not great spot in terms of leads. But I am really not the answer here. Voting me out because you don’t like how I played this doesn’t get us closer to finding scum. If you think I’m mafia here, then okay, sure, go ahead. But I honestly think if you look through what I’d have to do to be scum here and what purpose it would serve, you’ll come to the conclusion that it’s not helping solve. I don’t really know what else to say about this. I feel like I’ve been locked into spending time just answering questions because if I don’t I get yelled at and accused of ignoring people. I would like to turn my attention to literally anything else, especially if I only have a day left in the game to work on solving. Y'all can vote me or not, however you like, but there's no gotcha here, there's no story, there's just what's happened. But I don't see the point of continuing to hammer on it with the same questions. It's not getting us anywhere. Now I have a bunch of quotes in my bank and I'm going to address those.
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(25631703)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I've got family stuff all afternoon so I won't be back until this evening to finish up my readlist and address posts so y'all can holler at me in the meantime or wait until then. Gorlak, I opened the day talking about votes and nobody has given a shit.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
No, I don't see any value in it really at this time. All we know is that we can't trust the answers. You're right, that's why I altered my wording in the next post.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is all stuff I've walked through before. It says dead players but it absolutely did not look like the first result came from turmoil, who had no reason to say Maol was scum, especially now that we know he wasn't. Does it make sense to you that turmoil would say Maol is scum? That + the phrasing made it seem like it was more likely to be Natiko. It's possible the entire role PM text about that is a lie but that seems less bastard and more just ridiculous. I mean, it's possible, but I would put it at a far outlier. But I asked about Fandorin's post because that was something objectively, indisputably true - and was told it wasn't. So now at least we know that the results are either always lies or they do come from spec/dead folks who were told to lie (or, I suppose, in your outlier change, from scum - but I don't know why they would lie in this case. It seems like it would be more prudent for scum to tell the truth to muddy the waters further, don't you think?).
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
But it doesn't actually look like you are. This is also my issue. It looks like you're more determined to defend your very narrow view of the game, which is a possible view but does not actually get at other factors. I'm really not sure if it's just a play difference in how we view things or what but it looks like you're actually avoiding discussion of other possibilities. Like why does keeping you alive in particular help scum if you're not looking for them? Why would scum kill you over Fantomas anyway?This is the second time you've said I'm trying to pocket you but all you do it say it. Where in the hell am I trying to pocket you in this?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
all you do is say it* (as in you're not actually making an argument, just yelling MONKEY IS TRYING TO POCKET ME)
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
YES! which is part of what I keep trying to get you to address!
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yes, Gorlak, because there is literally nothing in my role PM to indicate that at all, no hints, no clues, no possibility from the wording and I really have no idea where you're even getting that. It says dead players. I suppose it's possible all the scum team is dead but that's total speculation. But either way that brings us back to my role being essentially useless, yeah?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm not talking about a person switcher, but whomever switched Maol's role. The role changer, overwriter, I don't know how to phrase it. Already answered in follow-up post.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Y'all are taking this entirely out of context. Yes, I said that I didn't think Meatwad was a good vote target. And neither of these takes addresses my responses to similar doubt then that it's kind of ridiculous for me to throw myself in front of Meatwad in this way. I mean really, let's think through what Kopite is leading up to: D1 I say: let's not vote Meatwad today! We'll vote him in the future maybe but not now! D2 I fake a red check (again I guess to protect Meatwad and also myself) which isn't just a fake check but an elaborate scheme So in this scenario, for me to continue to put myself on the line for Meatwad, Meatwad has to have a pretty good role, right? Because no offensive to Meatwad here, but I think I'm probably a more valuable scum team member just on the grounds that I have more experience doing it successfully in this community. Do we have any reason for me to do this? It's not a roleblocker. Is it the handprinter? What am I protecting to stack all this? Not only does this seem ridiculous, but it also seems like a trap, especially with Kopite's post. Now if I continue to not scum read Meatwad, I'm scum; if I scumread Meatwad, I'm also scum. But why would I set up a future bus on someone I've also been protecting? Neither of this takes into account my reads for today, which I haven't even posted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Doing this without at least checking in to see where I am on Meatwad feels like angling up to make me a target for today. Which, whatever. Shoot your shot. I know I'm in a weird place after yesterday. But that's a weird enough role and position that you don't need to spin a big thing around it.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
OH, I see what you're saying - you're saying that by the time I asked, we knew Maol's alignment. Gotcha. I was thinking that during discussion of if I should do this. I went ahead and asked because I figured it would help us get a sense of where my answers come from.
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(25628227)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I don't have a competing theory. I am trying to lay out what we know versus assumptions so that as we get information, we can add to it. This how I solve. I think you're right in that you're less likely to be just a scum detector. Where I struggle, as I said, is in thinking this is an arsonist situation, knowing what we do about Maol's role and automated death. That + removing 3-4-5 people from the game in one chunk is a LOT. Maol himself already could have thrown the game if he'd just died d4. Adding an arsonist to that feels wildly imbalanced, even knowing that an arsonist could hit both town and scum, especially if there's no cure/if the only cure was a possibly one-shot role changer. So what I'ms saying is: I think that your role detects something else. It may be a different flavor of neutral. It may be characters marked in another way. We don't have enough information from flips or anything else. For instance: am I a spooky thing? I have a connection to the other side. Would Maol have been a spooky thing? He was marked for death. For all we know the spooky thing may just be a way to help confirm role claims. Have you commented on my suggestion that an arsonist+Maol is too swingy? Because that's the crux of my argument.
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(25626183)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
My willingness to vote there goes down with some of what's been posted in the last five hours, personally. He's reading. He said above where he was. I'd rather he not just start throwing shit out myself. This feels off. Generally, I agree with this sentiment, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen this from Kalor before and in this game he's voted exactly once per day and it seemed like a vote, not a check of "where I am right now" vote. I've been feeling not-great about Kalor for a while though so I might as well: Though I've got more things in my notes to hit.
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(25626972)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Your role detects something. That it's a neutral is your leap in logic and in any other game I'd agree with you, but there are a lot of variables in play (see posts above). It could be another role. It could be scum. It could be something else. So far you've checked the two towniest players in the game so we have no information except that it's not them. I'm going to have lunch and then I'll get anything I missed and then work on a readlist.
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(25628273)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I am saying - as I said - that this doesn't fit with your votes in this game so far AND I don't recall you taking this kind of "lead" in games we've played before. It stands out on both fronts. It does not look at this point like I was hit by a switcher and I haven't seen any other evidence/indication of one.
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(25626520)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I wonder if it could be coincidence. My read on kits leans null - I really don't know where to put her right now - but I think it makes sense for scum to kill Fanto and block you or vice versa. If the handprint is an arsonist-style thing scum might want to keep you alive to see what happens/help narrow the field, so you get blocked and left alone while Fanto is killed. I can see that. I think the idea that the print is a delayed block is interesting. Could be possible. Not sure. But I think it's more likely you were just blocked, period. What I do find curious is a handprinter marking you and then Kopite. I would not put Kopite high up in the town reads myself, not like you were, even after d1, so the pair of you being marked is puzzling. If it's a scum power, it's likely the handprints are being put on town. But why you and then Kopite? I will say this: after Maol's role, I actually doubt it's an arsonist kind of deal. If we already have one player who was going to be auto-removed, an arsonist who could remove a whole chunk feels like a game-ender unless it's a really high number of people. And it looks like no one could remove the print or they would have, I'm sure. So I think it's something else, which means it could be any alignment.
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(25626277)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I disagree heartily with this. There's no real reason to avoid a vote like that; community meta is pretty forgiving of anyone on a purported red check, even one like what I posted, and Maol's role claim made it easier for people to argue the "we have to check there" angle. I do not think scum is on the counterwagon at all, too, which means scum is in the Maol voters almost certainly. I'm sure not all scum, as that's a big red flag, but any town lunch is good for scum and it's a vote no one's likely to analyze in a major way. It's an easy place to be and the arguments make themselves.
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(25626547)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The point I'm making is that there's actually no evidence of a neutral whatsoever. And see my follow-up post re: arsonist-style power. Your whole angle here on numbers depends on a LOT of assumptions, assumptions we don't have evidence of.
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(25628350)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I really don't want to, because it is related to game actions, but if we want to agree that my role is pretty useless after all, then I will reveal it, since it won't matter. We didn't already know at that point that Maol's alignment result was a lie and I floated the idea, no one really argued against it, and it gave us something to work with - either the answers are wrong (from Natiko & wrong) or they are coming from dead/spec and filtered through Natiko for formal phrasing.
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(25626570)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Now, if the role-switcher/overwriter is NOT one-shot, then maybe the arsonist idea could work here. It seems like it would have saved Maol from his otherwise certain fate. If it could also overwrite handprints and/or change the role of the arsonist, then maybe?
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(25625838)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I think it's just the weekend. :/ Weekends can be tricky but hopefully it'll pick up today/tonight. Looks like it has a bit since I have a page to read. Catching up.
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(25626351)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
kits, I'm putting this in here separately because I want to make sure you see it and it's not buried. I have questions. 1. How do we know it's a neutral role? Isn't that just speculation at this point? 2. Do we know scum is 3-1? What we do know is that there's apparently a roleblocker and that there is/was a role switcher (I don't think anyone has claimed being switched today?). If the latter was one-shot it could be part of a JOAT power and a roleblocker is more likely scum, especially if they targeted Gorlak. Since we don't know what the handprint does, we can't say if it's neutral or scum. So what are you working from?
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(25604762)

Thread Incredible scenes from Lebanon as the people rise up against their corrupt government (Reuters: 1.2 million protesting)
We are all terrified of being fired here for missing work/getting arrested or not impacted badly enough by terrible policies. The worst policies either only impact small percentages or people who are already oppressed in various ways.
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(25612546)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So does this mean you think Meatwad + Fran? I'm not seeing scum Fran. d1 I'd have said there was a possibility. After yesterday, I'm not feeling it.
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(25611745)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Gorlak was actually busy d2. He has no reason to try to fake being busy. Gorlak has been one of the people working hardest to solve. And if I was trying to pocket you, I’d probably believe your claim. I think you’re holding something back. That I understand your wariness around role PMs doesn’t mean I believe everything you said and you danced around questions.
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(25611767)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
My top suspects are Kalor and probably Zeke. I was not feeling great about VA before he swapped out, but I want to see what Zeke does when he gets a grip on the game.
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(25609737)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh wow, I expected some activity. Saturday, huh. Okay, so I asked about Fandorin's post and was told it was NOT true (and again it was phrased formally, so if it's coming from the outside, it's at least "translated") so what we have is this: 2/2 answers were wrong, but Fran told spec/dead if they were answering to lie and some others agreed, so maybe it's that- or maybe it's RNGed. But either way my answers are either opposite or cannot be trusted. So I think I'm effectively useless. Sorry to Maol for that. My guess is that in design it probably wasn't expected that the spirit talker would just come out with it but would just use the information to inform their play? I don't know. I really don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. I'm curious if anything else happened to Gorlak post-handprint and if anyone else got marked. I did not. I have some thoughts but I'm not feeling super great right now myself. I think I'll focus on questions/discussion for a while and maybe put up reads tomorrow morning after assessing. I do think the EoD votes, despite everything, give us some things to look at. This was all I did overnight: Active Maol voters: Kitsunelaine Kalor Fat4All Kopite Meatwad Active Meatwad voters Fantomas Fandorin Gorlak Fanto's obviously town now but at EoD, these three on Meatwad certainly seemed towniest. I would not vote Gorlak or Fandorin today unless there was some extreme shit that happened to change that; I'm putting them firmly in my town stack. I would guess there is at least one scum in the Maol voters. I think it's least likely to be Fat4All. I don't know if scum hammers so hard on me here. Maybe? I suppose it could be busywork to avoid scumhunting others but it feels like Fatdog's been putting more effort into that than necessary to raise those suspicions/do that than scum would have to. Tinfoil hat consideration: Gorlak being killed over Fanto was either out of concern for a protective role or the handprint isn't a neutral but a scum thing. (This is my wild speculation for the day) This tho:Did you ever raise the idea that there was some balance change yesterday? Has that ever happened? Because this seems like a wild conclusion to jump to that the gamerunner was rebalancing the game midplay. I also don't think Maol presented it that way. It seemed like a misunderstanding that was corrected or he was playing it that way - that he thought at first it was just an added modifier.
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(25610097)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yeah, at the moment, it definitely felt like Maol was pulling something (though he wasn't, he was totally truthful) but wasn't Quarantine one of those games from way back when shit was wild and chaotic? Like please tell how you legit read this as oops, a new role. Also, I meant to mention this earlier and forgot: I really don't know what to make of Zeke not at least looking at the flips. Are you on the road or something, man? The flips are linked, they're easy to get to. Why would you want that filtered through others?
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(25607035)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh man, that’s low. Fanto is big mad in spec right now since it’s the weekend and he could actually play. I am out shopping, and I will not be in for a couple of hours I think.
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(25610939)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
No, I don't think it's nitpicky at all to wonder why you would want a summary rather than looking at the role flips yourself. General summary of big moments I get. Flips I don't. D1 turmoil was kind of a mess and then we had a weird EoD with several people in contention but going into it, seemed turmoil was going to be the one regardless and he was. D2 I opened with information on Maol which turned out inaccurate*; kits also claimed as the backpack that detects "spooky things." She reads this as she has to find one person, presumably. What happens then we don't know. There have been on again, off again pushes for Meatwad that put him into contention vs Maol, but Maol wanted to be voted out, and there was some weirdness around his role that turned out totally accurate - he was original a dying soldier (he would die d4, automatically) but his role was changed from something/someone into just hated. Gorlak was marked with a handprint n1. We don't know more than that. *I opened d2 with the comment this was a red check because the answer I got from Natiko was phrased as a red check. Throughout the day we discussed how to deal with my results, which have big flaming question marks around them and we made some test posts yesterday for me to check lie detector style; the results said the post was false, when it wasn't, so my role is bogus, who the fuck knows. You should read the flips because that's important info. You should probably at least read the posts where Gorlak tried to tease out information on the marker, kits claimed and I claimed.
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(25581247)

Thread World War Z Season 2 bringing Horde & Cross-Play Support
I wanted to love this but it felt kinda janky and not challenging so I didn't give it much. I ADORED the L4D games - like all time top ten level - am I expecting too much from this? Should I try it again?
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(25580330)

Thread Something "weird" happened during sex or am I the weirdo?
I'm gonna suggest something radical here and say talk to her about it. Don't assume. Don't jump to conclusions. Figure out how you feel or what you want to know or what you need and talk to her.
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(25581992)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
If Maol were not here and my whole situation was not what it is, I would probably be voting for Kalor, though who knows, maybe he would have done more if things were different. But I hope tomorrow we get folks energized again. Definitely feeling town on Gorlak and Fantomas more than anyone else. Still not really feeling the Meatwad scum vibes myself but I'll keep in mind what folks have said about him.
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(25582051)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I mean, that's the problem and it's kinda my fault so RIP. It's an easy vote to justify regardless and easy to justify NOT voting, too. I do feel like we can sort out who said what though and where folks' priorities were once we get the flip and information about my role, his role/alignment, and this potential role s/wiper.
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(25582052)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I mean, that's the problem and it's kinda my fault so RIP. It's an easy vote to justify regardless and easy to justify NOT voting, too. I do feel like we can sort out who said what though and where folks' priorities were once we get the flip and information about my role, his role/alignment, and this potential role s/wiper.
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(25579039)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yes. I need people to post a single blatantly true statement. Like
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(25579560)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
lol y'all are terrible at this. Your name probably isn't Meatwad, but your username is is. And as for yours, Fran, god he is but there's a whole lotta people out there who somehow think he isn't so it is blatantly, objectively true? Anyway, the idea that came up earlier in the thread was - I think it was Fanto who suggested? - that maybe we could test this like a lie detector. I ask about a blatantly true statement and we determine if the power/results are to be trusted. It's not 100% but it might be worth a shot.
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(25581118)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It is remarkably quiet. There are several people who've been kinda hanging back.
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(25579072)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This idea was offered in lieu of lunching Maol since if we do we find out anyway but we may also want to try it regardless.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
can I get a couple more people to do this? I really like the way Fandorin did it here - the post number thing is perfect. or like my "this text is bold" one. Something absolutely indisputable, no loopholes.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So I guess y’all don’t want to test the lie detector thing?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It changes and that's all I can say about it.Maol, there were several people who definitely believed you didn't "play expressly townie" and I think that's what's getting referenced. For much of the day you didn't really engage much because of the odds - it's really only EoD where there's more of a split about how to read your behavior (as townie or not).
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(25579664)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I don't HAVE to do it - it was raised as an idea and I'm not against it and we also have time to discuss. But I can't do it without posts to use so if we even want to consider it, might as well give me fodder.
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(25576727)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Hey, Zeke! I'm back (my interview went okay, I think!) and I'm catching up.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
, I don't know if I missed you, but can you talk to me about this? How do you go from "kits totally did this thing before" to "it's easier to believe kits is not doing that thing here?" I don't really see how you got there - like why is this easier to believe in your eyes? "Not outside the realm of possibility" doesn't really equate to easy for me especially since you brought up her previous play. I can't confirm because it wasn't confirmed for me when I asked.
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(25576478)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
That's big necessary work and thank you for being someone who does it. <3
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(25567763)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I agree that the concept of the backpack as a role seems believable. Kojima made a pretty big deal about it, specifically telling people to look at it, etc. But yeah, town hunting for one player seems unusual and I kinda support Gorlak here in wanting to know more though considering kits' history I understand hear fear of even coming close to quoting her PM. But maybe we can ask this and I apologize if it did get clarified before and I missed it: , does your PM specify ONE spooky thing or not? Because sure, I suppose it could be that being scanned is a fail but that seems... flimsy. One person who can stop the neutral? But then if the neutral already has another failstate, adding a second one makes a neutral win even harder? I don't think this means she's lying either way; I think there's probably just some other aspect that maybe we don't know about yet.
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(25567874)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I think I probably could? If we select a pool of potential posts or if we get everyone who's active from now until end of day to post something like "The Pope wears a big hat" I could check it. I cannot ask about myself, though I don't know why I would.
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(25567626)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I just want to point out again that someone not playing in a way you expect does not equal scum (nor does someone playing in a way you do expect, like, etc. make them town). I'm not going to sit on information that could aim game solving. Some people do and try to set up traps, leak, whatever. I find that kind of manipulation can easily backfire and create more chaos. I probably could have gone about this whole thing better but I've tried to be as open as I could be about what I've got to share. As for kits' posts, man, kits, you (and I) are in that pack too where if we get read based on our attitudes, we are p much always scum, so let's not do this, okay? Gorlak has been pretty clearly town since about 2/3 through d1. I don't always agree with how he's doing things (see above) but do you honestly see an agenda or manipulation behind his posts or is he just frustrated and trying to solve a game that's already a clusterfuck on d2? I mean look around, this shit is like trying to knit a sweater out of wet spaghetti and . Gorlak is probably the person I think is most likely to be town here, period. Mark it, print it, we'll see post-game. I keep circling this too, but I don't think his role is unbelievable, as a fake claim or real one; I think the way it was presented was for me the real sticking point since D4 is pretty much it if we're not finding scum and he would know that. It ain't like we haven't hit d4 without finding scum before so we're not even talking outliers. It strikes me as purposeful to ignore that when so many posts have been concerned with numbers and odds. By purposeful I mean it wasn't as transparent as could be; he tried to sell a good reason to keep him alive until d4 without addressing that could be endgame. I have a real issue with that. That + getting at least some information on the potential role changer, my role, and whether or not his role was legit (if it would be in the flip, crossed out, a la cultists) means his flip seems pretty good to me today.: We could potentially come up with a question for me to ask that would allow us to see if I get truthful answers and use that to weigh in on what to do with Maol and then put it off for discussion and decision tomorrow. This is a risk if he is scum, but only a major risk if we think he has the ultimate super power amazing best scum role, so I'd say small risk, especially if he is telling the truth and his role was erased. Which- If the role-changer is town, could they potentially overwrite all scum powers? That seems OP, no? If the role-changer is scum and made Maol hated, he's most likely town or neutral. I again think this is one of those things where we just don't know. It really could well be that Nat messaged him. It could be a lie. I think hinging anything on it either way is a mistake.
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(25567892)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, I have to go. I will not be back until late this afternoon.
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(25567647)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
as someone dedicated to designing for flavor, can confirm this, have had this argument 101095209343 times, including with Fran himself XD
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
sigh, this was meant to be AID, not AIM, stupid tiny keyboard
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is such a small thing and it probably doesn't matter for the game at all so ignore me I guess but also what??? You mean the flavor in role PMs? Because game theme is usually pretty obvious when reviewing if not blatantly so.
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(25567137)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
You're right, I missed this, but welcome to my world. You're right that I'm not labeled medium; I am Mama the Spirit Mother, and the closest variation I've been able to find on any wiki is spirit talker, which is listed as an alternate name for medium, but.... big shrug emoji. But no, sorry, I don't "know better" - I got an answer that led me to believe it was not turmoil who was answering, but Natiko. Further, I couldn't see any world in which turmoil would label Maol as scum after EoD1 without spoilers and still not in that form. So yeah, it seemed like a red check. It's possible I guess that Natiko could be rephrasing answers. I do not have enough information to make that determination either way. I have a weird, complicated role in a bastard game and I'm doing the best I can with it. I haven't seen anything like a medium before (the game you mentioned was way before my time and I never read it, have just heard references to it) - honestly, the thing I thought of was Volcano Island, and given what I got, I really don't know where the message/result comes from. I can only report what it is and what my role PM says.
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(25567194)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I actually feel this also describes Vincent, except for a couple outlier comments, and feel Meatwad has been at least more willing to engage, but it's probably fair on both. Got a lot to read and probably will only have time for a couple more posts over the next several hours since I gotta finish getting ready for my interview.
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(25558036)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I also said it’s a long PM and there’s more to the role, including how it’s limited. If I was making up a claim (or if Nat was as a fake claim), you’d think it would be a little simpler. As for your question, I’ll ask. I assume so since I could ask about town.
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(25557801)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I felt not great about Fran for most of day one but I’m iffier today. I think without anything else on the table, I’d look at Fat4All or Kalor. I’m amazed kits has so many posts. I guess they were all at once?
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(25557836)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I have not full claimed. There is an aspect I will not reveal, as I’ve said like three times now, because it would impact the flow of gameplay in a negative way. I don’t think it matters for evaluating the role, either.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Though I don’t know if I’ve ever seen town Fatdog? Maybe this is just how he is. I’m tired.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I too am out for parenting shit for a while - elder has first band concert. I'll be significantly less available tonight/tomorrow, as I have interview prep, but I'll check in.
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(25550389)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Well, it depends. Yes, especially if there's a way to remove it - and it looks like there is at least one way, if Maol's claim about hated is legit. In DS, there's also a way to stave off the effects of timefall so it's possible that there's a counter, like a firefighter or some shit. But if he's the only one, that's unlikely. It feels like a role someone should absolutely play in a way that baits a night kill. Maol said he hoped for that. But I don't see that in his play d1, either (d2 is a wash, obviously, for 1392394 reasons). Where I do have questions is the d4 business but it's hard to untangle where I think about that on balance and where I think about that with regard to how Maol brought it up.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
There are lots of roles that exist that don't get used often here. But I do think speculating on what a gamerunner would/wouldn't do is probably a path to madness. We are so often wrong when we do that.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I feel like at this point it's the path to the most information but I'm really frustrated that we have at least a third of the game chilling on the sidelines and we're gonna need to light a fire under some asses tomorrow. It's too easy for them to sit by today. But a Maol flip gives us: information on my role information on a potential role switcher information on Maol himself So it's a lot of clues and trails to follow. But I really don't know how I feel about Maol himself.
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(25547040)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
You know, I just really don't fucking know at this point. I'm a medium who may not be a medium. kits is maybe a backpack? Maol, best case, is a mess regardless. But I've now read it all three times and it's the initial claim that I'm really struggling with. Like it's actually plausible but the way Maol went about it feels really out of character and completely opposite to the way he's approached the whole game so far, but I feel like invoking Natiko correcting him means there's at least some grain of truth in there somewhere. That doesn't seem like something he would make up. So I guess I come to this: I do believe there was a change to his role of some short. I do not know if the initial role is real or fake claim, nor do I feel confident with regard to his alignment. So I'm back to the board on how many roles potentially targeted Maol last night versus other powers/targets just as away to try to ferret some of this out.
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(25546689)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, I've read everything twice and I really don't even know what to say. But here's a question: Per this + your claim, someone changed your whole role in a way that would have saved you? So if this is true, we have someone who can fully overwrite roles. If Maol is scum, that's certainly not a scum power, but if my info is wrong and he's town I don't know if we can say for sure either way. I would second this and add:When you get here, some more insight, reads, something would be really helpful.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
oh uh I just scrolled up so uh I'll just read everything now because I think I'm outdated lol
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I see there’s a lot of posts but this is what I’ve read up to. I’m sorry, I’ll get there. I just wanted to add in here that for all Maol has talked about me setting up “safety nets,” his talk of odds + this behavior absolutely looks like hedging his bets.
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(25545676)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Just got home and this is a lot to unpack. So CDT6 I think is the and one of the dudes gets hit with the time changing super rain or whatever so okay, that actually does check out for flavor. BUT. BUT: surely someone who talked about odds all through day one sees the problem with the d4 marker? 15 players, if we don't hit scum by D4, that's endgame. If we only hit one scum by d4 and you just auto die along with the daily kill, that's also bad place. I am struggling to follow how someone who has been obsessed with the numbers for most of the game so far glides right over these numbers like nbd, I'll just die on my own. I don't really know what to make of that.
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(25536272)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I actually addressed this previously so don't frame this shit like it's some kinda gotcha. I'm doing the best I can here with a really weird role. I said early on that the results/answer I got was clear: Maolfunction is not aligned with town. That's why I referred to it as a red check with caveats. I don't know if something is going on but it was phrased like a regular check even though I'm an information role rather than investigative. And then last night I said that it was exciting to get this. I mean, legit I did not think that Nat would like me ask such a straightforward question considering I have to have them approved so when he took it and I got this, it felt like a lightning strike but as the day has worn on I've felt a hell of a lot less certain about it. Put yourself in my shoes here.
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(25536046)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
In line with mechanics, you mean? Because that's actually pretty interesting - kits hasn't much speculated on game state or players, but went from mechanics talk to claim. Now, her claim, like mine, is pretty fucking weird and with what I have I'm inclined to believe it's not made up or anything, but I don't know if it does get us much closer to solving, even knowing it might relate to what happened to you, Gorlak. Been thinking a lot about that handprint and there are sinister af implications there. I agree that single-player-hunters are usually neutral - it's why I asked about win con - but if it's like an arsonist type or something, maybe? The target, I mean. Probably not actual arsonist with the flavor but something along those lines. man I empathize with this I think it's brilliant to take all these half ideas from the reveals and stitch them together tho.
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(25535807)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Let me address some threads (strands??) on this and then I have some stuff about kits. Short answer: I don't know. I asked about this and got a big shrug. Slightly longer answer: This is why I have some concern I could have a hidden modifier that RNGes or impacts response, which is a kind of fuckery that might make more sense than actually speaking to dead players. Because like, mechanically, what's more likely: during the twilight window, Nat has to have dead players active who can and will answer or it's flavor and he just gives me some answer, which may or may not be trustworthy I find the latter more likely. Also because I can only reference a single player and can't ask general things (like I can't ask "did the mafia kill x" to check for multiple kill sources, this was a sample I asked about, or "who should I vote for") it makes me thing it might be a target thing? But I can't say for certain. you and me both, GorlakThe answer/result I received did not seem like it came from turmoil directly. I specifically got that Maol was not aligned with town. So back again to what I have earlier in the post and the other posts - I don't know. I'm sure Nat is cackling. It's possible, both from the game being bastard and from the role itself. But from EoD it seems really unlikely that a sample size of one turmoil would say Maol is scum. Like in a vacuum, I don't think turmoil turns on Maol there. So it's either: -not actually from dead players -bastard fuckery -if from dead player(s), they're spoiled -if from dead player(s), they are pointing and laughingKalor, 100%, since I can NEVER read him and am almost always wrong.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
LOL mine is pretty long, especially compared to Ket's (and not as funny, either)
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, so I have a mock interview today and a real one tomorrow, so I'm gonna need to go do stuff. I'll be back later but it's going to be a bit outside of occasional mobile checkins. I think we should keep Maol on the table, considering, and figure out how what to do with the information I got. But I don't think it's all we should talk about because it gives folks some room to hide.
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(25534460)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I've got a TON of quotes in my bank but it'll be a minute before I get to them so I'll start here - dead players is what it specifically says. What I don't know is if I can trust that phrasing based on the answer I got, questions to Nat that went unanswered, etc. Though I can see how you speculated scum from my wording and that gave me a small heart attack and I went back and reread to be sure lol.
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(25528864)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
There is one thing and I honestly don't know what to make of it, like if it's flavor or a hint at bastardy and Natiko gave me nothing when I asked. I am Mama and my information (results) comes from my . As in dead players. That is indicated. I can ask for information but it's limited (I can only ask for information about certain players) AND Nat has to approve my question. So while there is nothing in my role PM that indicates this info ISN'T to be trusted, there's also absolutely nothing that proves they are OR if they actually come from dead players (people in spec). It comes down to whether or not we trust the phrasing. So you can see why I am not feeling super 100% AND why I did not want to begin speculating on scum powers d1 because what the absolute fuck balances this? The limits are there I guess because it's potentially broken as fuck without them. So when I said there may be elements that impact my information, it comes down to just how bastard the game is and if dead players means dead players (as in just turmoil at the time). turmoil and Ket's flips weren't particularly bastard. Even if Maol really did get hit with a modifier it apparently didn't change his actual role so that's not that bastard, either. So I lean toward... maybe not that bastard? Maybe the dead thing is flavory? I've been weighing everything all day so far and I honestly don't know where I come down on it. It felt like a holy shit moment when I got my results back, like hell yeah! but even while typing up my initial post I started to wonder and I've just wondered more as the day goes on. a++++ rendering of Death Stranding mind fuckery, at least.
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(25528988)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Well, don't do that. But between Fat4All's prioritization of information in his posts and the mixup about the Hated modifier, I'm getting a weird sense from his reactions here. Everyone else makes sense to me and some of the reactions I've been using to kinda get a sense of how bastard they think the game might be but his I can't get a fix on.
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(25529260)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm Sam's fucking backpack, that's amazing But I do have to ask, fellow weird ass investigator, is there any odd phrasing or anything (uh, don't quote your PM, kits. lol.)? I mean, other than jokes or whatever, anything? And yeah, it's just that Fanto is not your target. But you're still town with that, with town win con?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm in bed so I'm not grabbing the actual posts but I asked if Maol was aligned with town and got a no, not aligned with town. The answer was p traditional investigation type response which is why I don't know if my role stuff is actually just flavor or real like if I'm really asking people or if it's just a dressed up investigation role or what. Ask one question/night Question has to be approved Can only reference limited pool of players
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Huh. That seems absolutely geared toward throwing a wrench into everything but it does make me feel like my weird shit isn't just an outlier, at least.
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(25527033)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Yeah, and again I absolutely want someone to explain why I would so obviously bodyblock Meatwad in a way that would get me and then him killed because that's all that comes from this scenario. Back in a little.
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(25522434)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It is both limited and unusual - very not a traditional cop. It's a take I've never seen before, which again, is why I was reticent to speculate on scum powers on d1. I also had no idea how it would play out. But to answer this and both Gorlak's question about future usefulness, because of the way my power is limited, a full reveal could very well impact flow of the game and I'm not willing to do that. I dunno what else to say about it there. You'll see why I did it this way when I flip and it no longer matters, but all I can do is play the best I can with what I have. But also because this is not a traditional check and the game is bastard I set it up with caveats. Gorlak and Maol are convinced I'm scum and won't see it any other way but it's not a "safety net." There's no safety net; if I'm wrong, I die. No one's gonna believe me until I flip. And I think you (fatdog) and kits raise a good point in the later post about Ket's role. A self-watcher that gets numbers... I didn't think about it when I saw the flip, just noted that it seemed more traditional than turmoil by far (and my own) but I think you have a point that there's probably just disruptive roles. If Maol is telling the truth and he got a modifier added, that's disruptive. If my check is straight up wrong, that could be a modifier on me or it could be a switch, or it could just be a hidden part of my role; either way, that's also disruptive. But Ket's flip does indicate there are multiple overlapping powers that could probably target without killing. I don't think we have much more to go on than that though. Oh, I guess Gorlak has something to add to it, so there's another piece. After everyone checks in we may have some more pieces that we can use to start figuring out how connections got drawn but I'm really uncertain about how to proceed with Maol's claim about the modifier and my check, but I'll address that in my responses to Gorlak, I think. Except I guess to add: in a world in which Maol could be telling the truth, is a switch/redirect the same power or was he targeted multiple times? Or is it more likely there's a modifier on me that I don't know about? We'd be looking at 2-3 people targeting Maol and that seems like a lot, especially with a kill on Ket and something with Gorlak at the least. I don't mean that's too many roles, just that ~3 on Maol alone seems like a lot. I guess there could have been a target on me to fuck up my results and that might be more likely than a modifier on me. I kinda wanna draw a chart to see possible permutations.
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(25526547)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Actually, , I unvoted because he said he gained the Hated modifier and while I don't know if that's true, I didn't want to spearhead a vote pileup since majority is pretty low anyway, and the introduction of an applied modifier does mean shenanigans of at least one sort in the thread. Unless he's lying about both, which is possible here.
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(25524316)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Eh, we've had some misdirect/redirect/disruption roles before that were town, or at least one-off abilities given to town, so I wouldn't immediately jump to it being a scum thing but I do agree this is the least likely scenario regardless. Maol said he's not a and that's the kind of thing most folks would want to claim early anyway.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I have a couple of weird feelings about some of the posts today so I'm interested in what you think about responses and reactions.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
You do too so same question to you. And I know you addressed this in posts I'm getting to below but do you really think if I'm scum I'm partnered with Meatwad and openly redirect in the way that's been proposed and then follow up with some wild gambit that will only get me killed d3 and cause any connections I have to be scrutinized further? In this scenario you've drawn up, I'm making wild, open risks that will almost certainly be caught, all to ostensibly save Meatwad. I mean, I like Meatie and all but that's unlikely at best. Really think that through for a second: do I, in this game, openly throw everything to protect Meatwad? Especially it's likely you would campaign for Meatwad to be killed right after me in this scenario? I think this is getting back to what I was saying yesterday with us talking past each other. You're so into this theory that you're not stopping to think about it. I'm not saying I'm incapable of bad play or bad decisions but that's obnoxiously bad and if we're talking a 3-4 person scum team, in this world I just put 50-75% of it on the line to... what? What's the end game? The only way it would work is if it left someone else untouchable who could skate to endgame. Who is that? So if you are absolutely set on me being scum, who's my team? Going back to the rest:No, I didn't. You're reading intent that was not there and I honestly don't know where you are getting it. You say I'm twisting words, making mountains out of molehills, etc., etc., but... turmoil was sketchy and I felt he was the best candidate on the table yesterday. It's regretful that he was town but I don't regret my vote. I laid out pretty clear cases for why I felt as I did, too, at every step. I'm not trying to hide my trains of thought here. I did. There's a difference between you not liking my answer and me not answering (and you not liking my play choices doesn't automatically make me scum, either). Here's what I said:Cagey in general = also in his EoD play "my flip would be useful as town" can either be manipulative or straightforward and I didn't have enough to determine whether or not he was honest so this is why I chose him (and it's not like I'm the only one to question that line). Let me expand, since you found the above lacking: his actions throughout the day, including his EoD play, led to my targeting him. You read his EoD as very townie. I do not. The whole "I won't self pres" when he was unlikely to be voted out doesn't sway me. Refusing to vote turmoil isn't conclusive; scum would have known turmoil's alignment. Jumping on a Fran train doesn't either. Fran was unlikely to be voted out yesterday. I do think it strengthens the notion that Fran/Maol are not w/w, but that's all. I don't find any of it conclusive. Hence the investigation. Since I think you're most likely town here, my guess is that since Maol seemed to be acting similarly to you, that means he's also town. I don't agree with that either, though. I find Maol much more cagey and less straightforward. Answered above. As for the other, I think this is actually a really good example of the disconnect between us. It's another instance in which I've said two things and you've fixated on one rather than both. Yes, I would like to keep being useful, as I have an information role. I don't really know why I need to justify that. But the other thing I said, which you didn't bring into this post, is that the full reveal of my role (the weird twist on it) could impact the flow of the game in negative ways, which I want to avoid. But it's the first stuff I put in this post that I would really like you to think about. I loudly and repeatedly express a dislike for gambits in mafia. The play you're accusing me of requires me to not only gambit but also to sacrifice half the mafia team in doing so for... I don't know. I don't think you know, either. But if you do, please tell me.
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(25526957)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Absolutely true. So here's where I am on it (and then I gotta step away for a bit): If scum Maol I check Maol - result is not town Theoretically someone else also applies hated modifier - this person would be town also since scum wouldn't do that to a scummate (or Maol is lying to deflect/was already hated) If town Maol (in which case, probably telling the truth) I check Maol (town power 1) Someone applies the hated modifier (could be any alignment) Someone applies a switch or redirect or something (more likely scum but indeterminate) =three people targeting Maol and that seems like a lot OR the switch/redirect/whatever also applies a hated mod - but that seems OP =two people targeting Maol OR there's shenanigans with my role (which IS possible here) but that still requires a second person targeting Maol So in any scenario with town Maol there's at least two people on him and it wasn't Ket, who didn't seem to have the best feelings about him, so at least one other person targeting him for reasons unknown. If scum Maol, there may or may not be a second target on him. We also know: Ket was killed Gorlak claimed to have been visited And if we assume some sort of protective or similar role, there's another thing happening. Lot of powers flying around, and we know at least one was self-targeting so potentially more there. To my eye, the most likely scenario is scum Maol but I'm not willing to throw down the gauntlet on a check in a bastard game, even when it's my check.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Back and catching up. Before I start responding to individual posts I will say I don’t sit on red checks. Some people do and try to tease out reactions. I don’t. I had a pretyped post in pineapple pizza mafia, too. I’d rather just put the information out there.
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(25526747)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
and monkey makes three There have been a few weird assumptions and leaps so far today. I wanna see what Fanto says and then when I'm done with this interview prep I'll probably put up a list of questions/observations.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Oh, RIP Ket but that role PM is hilarious. That role is more traditional though. Hmm.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I don't know what you think I tried but by all means, expand.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Hmm. What do you mean, Maol? I stand by my check (with all the above caveats).
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I would probably sit on the vote and cry about it being just in case if I were attempting shenanigans. I'm not. I want to solve the game and this is a big wrench so I would like to hear from some others so we can weigh the reports from you and me and see how they fit into what we know so far. I still won't full claim (and I don't know that we should trust anyone who does without questioning after what we saw in the rules), but I will say that the unusual aspects of my role is part of what made me immediately jump to wondering about swingy unpredictable elements. I have to go cook dinner but I'll be back in like... two hours? This is true of Fanto + me and it goes both ways at times. XD
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
"now" - so you're saying you were not Hated yesterday and that it changed? I just want to be very clear here because that makes me really question what else could be impacted. The results were clear: target is not aligned with the town. But in a role madness/bastard game switches are a possibility. The question here is if that's the same switch Maolfunction is claiming or what.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
This is why I stress not to just blindly turbo to try to get a sense of how bastard we think the game is. Nothing in my results particular indicates I should doubt it but I think we've all been burned too much by bastard games to take it at face value, so I'm voting but with caution.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
TBH I would not be surprised if there was a modifier that rnged it. Though if so that's real bastard and I don't know if we've done much with modifiers like that? Okay, for real, back in a bit.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I don't know what intent you think I had but I played the same as I generally play - trying to dig out meaning and intent behind posts. I look for agendas. It's my MO. I find Maolfunction cagey in general. He doesn't seem to directly answer a lot of questions and things like "my flip would be useful for town" can be offered straightforward or as manipulation. It's why I chose him from my limited pool of targets. Had I been free to choose anyone, he wouldn't have been my choice.
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(25516265)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
One of the reasons I was against discussion of scum powers on d1 is because my role, at least, is not like anything I've ever seen before and it had me thinking hard about how to possibly predict scum powers if town has weird powers. What I mean by this is that from just looking at mine (and turmoil's really cements this), I think this game could be really swingy so it'll be difficult to predict how things balance, especially with our typical meta. Maybe I'm wrong and others have more conventional things, but I wanted to hearken back to that because my reaction to that potential discussion was purposeful (and serves as a breadcrumb of sorts). I would rather not full claim unless necessary because my power is a) not traditional and b) of situational utility (I'll say this: I am very limited in targets) and I got lucky but I got a red check on Maolfunction last night. Since I know this will be the first question, I fear if I full claim my power will never be useful again and it will influence behavior in the game to town's detriment. And while I'm voting my red check, I do want to hear from everyone because bastard game is bastard and there may be elements that impacted my results. I'm not fishing for claims - I just don't want to just rush and turbo. (aside: I thought the day ended at 6 my time, not 5, so I missed EoD and I'm sorry - I was driving home during EoD.)
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Thread Ninja tries to set up Fortnite with Gaga stream, he's reminded that he has a wife.
Somehow I don't think it's hurting him at all, nor do I think it's constant.
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Thread Ninja tries to set up Fortnite with Gaga stream, he's reminded that he has a wife.
Nope, not strange, because it will always have been an entirely ridiculous (and toxic) thing to have done in the first place and reminding folks not to perpetuate ignorant positions never gets old.
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(25476484)

Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I absolutely agree that Maol has some inconsistency here to my eyes but I can't tell if it's just playstyle difference or nefarious intent. But I don't know that I agree that turmoil is the easy vote here. There are people definitely pushing back against that vote - for reasons that I don't really agree with, personally - and I think it's been a bit more tumultuous than many day 1 votes. My hesitation there would be that every other wagon has been pretty jagged and unconsolidated but I don't know what that means and don't think that's readable today.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm gonna be in and out until day end - I'm helping facilitate a workshop and then I have to collect small people but I'll be keeping up as best I can via mobile and will be here for last 30 minutes or so.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Ugh, I'm using my netbook and I'm surprised this is my first major typo - I keep hitting the wrong keys, hitting the touchpad, etc.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, here we go, I appreciate this and retract my post a moment ago - but I gotta say, man, it's frustrating when you gotta dig reasons out of people. We need reasons. In a 13 player game, if we want to go back to number discussion, our odds aren't that bad. But no matter what, we get A flip and SOME information, even if we're wrong - so my feeling is vote the person most likely to be scum-- and be as confident as you can in your vote considering the game state. But I do simply disagree about what we get out of various flips versus interactions. More clues, more trails to follow, more opportunities to solve the game.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
1. This is why I asked. 2. Maybe your positions would be more clear if they were explained or backed up in real ways when you first presented them. If you mention that me, Fran, and Fanto aren't gonna be viable trains, how else do you expect that to be read other than that you want them to be? This is really the first time you've presented reasons for things. Though I really don't follow how you think Gorlak is better because he has FEWER interactions. How is that better? How is turmoil having MORE interactions somehow WORSE?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
. I simply disagree and I wanted to know why felt that fewer interactions=better flip, but I get the feeling he'd rather be snarky than build out reasons for his actions. It's my feeling (almost always) that more interactions=better flip, particularly when we're talking about something in early game that we will want to reference again later. Ties to more players = more clues and more places to look. And while turmoil has interacted with more people than you, I don't think it's been quite so wild as you frame it here and there have been very specific conversation threads that can be followed.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Hmm, maybe chilling on vacation explains why you're so reasonable, but I've got my eyes on you. (half kidding; half serious) (for those who don't know, Fran is usually chewing me up one side or the other because of phrasing or something by now and it's weirding me tf out.) As for Kopite, he seems a little less about following the crowd and more doing his own thing so far so I give it a townie edge.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
You did slap yourself down on a wagon, tho. Meatwad is/was a wagon. just sayin And rac does give reads. He's very astute. He just doesn't broadcast them in lists and shit so he often flies under the radar!
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I mean, sure, it's either this or the fact that two people I'm not into followed me on the vote for bullshit reasons, but yeah, you're probably right that it's a big conspiracy move. You got me.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So if I'm understanding this, your reads right now are: Fanto Fran me =scum (If I'm wrong here, let me know, because that's sure how it reads.) Gorlak and turmoil are "interesting" and then you vote VA for reasons (what reasons? I dunno) - the second person to do so while scumreading me, the person who started the train. insert thinking emoji. The only person you actually say anything about is turmoil and that's incredibly wishy washy. Walk me through why you think turmoil's flip wouldn't be useful for town (your phrasing).
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Nope. As I said earlier, VA had a bad entrance and then poofed and that’s a classic scum move. Also some inconsistencies I don’t love there. My vote today will be between him and turmoil unless something changes. Meatie, on the other hand, just flailed a little but also stayed in thread. There’s scum Meat meta to compare to AND it felt less agenda-driven than some others.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The world is a shit place and getting shittier. Hope you feel a little better later though, regardless.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I wouldn't vote Meatwad. If Meatie is scum it'll come out; with this group I don't think he could hide for too long. Too many sharp eyes here.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So since you scumread me, you're saying that I would start a train on my scummate with the votes as they were?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
And my hot take for the day is that Fran’s relative low key presence feels bad but not bad enough to vote d1.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The train that has three people on it now, one of whom is the person you're now voting?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I assume this has changed since you've scattered your vote everywhere, including among these players?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I just want to state for the record that I've been doing would/would not vote lists since Fanto was in short pants, goddammit.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
- Mild town read, though few interactions, but spot probably replaced, so nothing much to say here. - Honestly, null. I see some people putting Fran down as town and I would maybe give that a slight edge for questions and engagement but Fran seems mild here compared to games I've played with him in the past and that rings some alarm bells for me. Would not vote today but very much on my watch list. - Really all there is here is the noise generated by a random vote, which is NAI. Null pending more activity. - Hesitant town lean. malus is often in the background but nothing cagey here so far, though I might do a reread this afternoon just in case. - Fatdog is a tough read but I don't think I'd vote d1. Scum Fat4all tends to try to blend more so my lean here is slight town. - I truly have no idea. Feels a little opportunistic but I can rarely read Kalor even as days progress. I don't think I've EVER read him correctly. Solid null, possible scum lean if turmoil happens to be town. - Light on content, but town lean - Nothing whatsoever. Would vote. Poor game entry followed by disappearance feels more scummy than not to me. - Town lean, would not vote today. - Have posted at length on turmoil and the back peddling about me+Fran being a joke doesn't fly with me. Scum. - Null for now, but a little more engagement today that I want to watch as we move into end of day. - Faint scum lean, but honestly would not vote Fando d1 because some of it just seems like it might be odd phrasing/difference of approach. I'd definitely rather see how he develops over another phase. - Feeling like Gorlak and I were just talking past each other, so I'll file him as not-a-vote for now but don't really have a proper read as yet, pending further developments. - Some weirdness settling in but as the day has progressed, has felt very town - not just meta town, but engaging, curious town.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Seconded. If someone is banned they will probably be replaced, so it's a concern for the gamerunner. Catching up.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Good morning. Busy here for a few hours but at a skim, I feel better about Gorlak, glad to see turmoil actually voting a scumread even if it’s me (though dude, there was zero indication the thing you said five times was a joke, if that’s what you’re trying t do), and would definitely make Kalor my investigate in PIK. Also some folks melted away, like Vincent. I agree that Meatie’s vote was a little sketch. With both Meatie and Kalor, can’t tell if they’re opportunistic or just not making big arguments. Problem with one early glaring spot and d1, I guess. Will expand on that when I return. Anyway I have a big chunk of free time after some things this morning so back in a while.
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Thread Pick a protagonist, antagonist, setting and genre from four different games to make a new, better game.
someone give this person a studio, huge moneymaker here
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I've got one more bigger post to come but while I'm prepping I'm reading back a bit and I gotta echo some of the ??? on this one. I get there are a number of approaches to P/I/K, but I've got questions. 1. Do you think kits is town then? Why? 2. Why her out of the several middle of the road posters who'd give zero clues? Just off the top of my head, we've got several people in there - malus for one, Kopite, Vincent, etc. None of them are likely to top the post counts board - kits, though, might; at times when she gets wound up, she'll post a ton. So why her specifically? 3. So if you're calling this a game without much activity, why do you think scum would remove a middle poster and not a high poster?*** ***This is base speculation but you brought it up and I wanna hear more.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Mafia is a good distraction but make sure to take care of you! (if that includes playing the mafia, then heyyyyyy) <3 night, y'all
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Am I high or did Fandorin pop in, completely ignore my questions (and other folks' posts to him) and then pop right back out? Is there a lot of that going around this game or am I losing my mind?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So I keep reading turmoil and I just have questions, really. tl;dr here and then individual quotes/comments behind spoiler tags. Summary: turmoil has pushed this idea of some connection between me and Fran (never has there been a more unlikely pairing, tbh) without explaining it over multiple posts. It's just repetition that there is something. What is it? Who knows; it's something, it's fake, whatever. When asked, he has either ignored it or just repeated it. But he hasn't voted there, despite wanting to get people to choose (???), or so he said. Instead he has voted: Kopite (seeming joke vote) Fat4all Maolfunction Fat4All seemed like a pressure vote of sorts, though not one turmoil particularly followed up on, and Maol seems more like a "real" vote but is also offered as kind of a throwaway. Or rather, it started as a prod vote and then when Maol started his rng stuff, turmoil added to that. It could be timing or it could be an attempt to justify a vote after the fact. His scum leans are me and Fran, and he scumreads fatdog but moved the vote off. But the scumread is for only posting gifs and jokes. So I've played scum with turmoil and he sometimes wilds out under pressure, but being a little jagged can be his town MO too, so on the face, some of this could go either way. But trying to seed a particular narrative makes me lean a little more scum, especially since it seemed to arise from a joke and then get justified (not dissimilar from the Maol vote which didn't seem as serious and then it did). It also strikes as not actually scum hunting but really trying to look like scumhunting (see under spoiler for more on this). I'd like to see competing trains for d1 for the movement but also I feel most strongly about this, so:
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Hmm. I dunno what it is this game but your phrasing really strikes me as off (aligned with the rest of the thread???) but I dunno if it means anything. Thanks for pulling these.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Okay, fair, I suppose I took it as being the same. I still hold that it's noise, though. I entirely disagree on d1 interactions not mattering until later but that's a game philosophy and we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
But it's noise about how blah blah blah d1 is useless rng votes conversation for the sake of conversation which literally helps no one except possibly scum since it distracts from anything actually useful, which is why this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it. It's lazy at best and anti-town at worst. And here, worse yet, your internal logic throughout these posts is inconsistent because you're saying d1 votes only matter later... and rng votes just create noise that interferes with analysis of "real" votes.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So I know Gorlak is on the other side of the world but it felt really abrupt when he exited the thread and I don't want this stuff to get left behind. I don't really have a read on him yet - the kneejerk reaction he had was actually pretty NAI, I think - but I do think this stuff needs to be addressed. Overall, this remark feels more like a joke than a serious remark from me, and the follow up about how turmoil was town both times is what I'm more interested in because I'm really not sure how to read it. It's somewhat brazen if Gorlak is scum here. I keep typing and deleting here because I'm really not sure what to say. If Gorlak is joking, all this is nothing, and that's possible. But it's weird. Not overtly bad weird, just weird-weird. If jokey, I want to read it as town, if that makes sense? Anyway, where he explains is also where he turns into the game speculation and I think maybe that's what stuck out to me. The pairing feels potentially like a purposeful deflection. I felt more strongly about this before turmoil started slip-sliding around, though (but everything after is still notable). As a reminder, this is how I responded - note that I don't mention numbers (and later clarified that I wasn't talking about numbers); my objection is on speculating on scum power capability. And Gorlak really did not like being questioned on this (and I wasn't the only one):The "I don't think you're serious here" really sticks out to me - because again, I have no comment on numbers. Yes, underestimating scum numbers has bitten us before but no one's arguing that. It feels like a nudge toward narrative creation. I can't be serious or not about that since I never talked about it, but it's a push toward "Monkey is trying to deflect" when I'm all saying is we don't know anything about scum powers. Except for scum, of course, they do. Anyway, I look forward to Gorlak's return and getting a better handle on all this.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Can we just ban this asshole from appearing in our games? Not you, fatdog, you are beloved.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I mean, yes, from an outside standpoint, I think this is a pretty decent approach. Maybe we play p/i/k differently than these folks, but d1, I'm for sure not outright killing anyone who's gonna generate reads and readable content; I'd investigate first. But from where I sit, knowing what I know (and knowing my own town v scum meta), I'm pretty amused. I'm not trying to start shit; Fando himself mentions that and should know the difference. But I can also understand why Fando in particular would be wary of me, so I'd be more inclined to read that more kindly. turmoil has been doing nothing but trying to start (baseless) shit, though. Anyway, bigger post from earlier stuff incoming. But I think my own p/i/k would be: protect Ketkat (gut feeling here) investigate Gorlak kill Maolfunction
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I don't think I've ever had so many people want to kill me d1. That's pretty interesting in and of itself. It's double interesting when one of them is turmoil, who is so slippery here that he may well be dipped in oil, but I'll get to that. These two first:Asking questions and following up on things is good d1 play, generally. Looking for connections without making something out of nothing. Generating content without noise. Voting before the last five minutes of the day. Come down how you want, but bigger fish to fry than your awkward phrasing presented themselves, my dude.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I think that's less keying in on the vote and more ????? generally. Because the vote itself?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
The way things have gone so far in this game, I don't think it's excitable at all. And "just over 24 hours into the game" is more than halfway through the phase, too. But let's flip it: what's the point of a random vote when you announce it's a random vote? There's no pressure accompanying it. Unless someone follows you for weird reasons (which is doubtful when you say it's a random vote), it's not likely to start a train, and I struggle to see why anyone would vote for Ketkat here.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
But it's noise about how blah blah blah d1 is useless rng votes conversation for the sake of conversation which literally helps no one except possibly scum since it distracts from anything actually useful, which is why this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it. It's lazy at best and anti-town at worst. And here, worse yet, your internal logic throughout these posts is inconsistent because you're saying d1 votes only matter later... and rng votes just create noise that interferes with analysis of "real" votes.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
What feels fake, exactly? Is making slant comments and not actually backing anything up just going to be your MO this whole game or...? Because you keep saying this while not actually saying anything at all. I've got dinner and then four apps to do tonight (whee.) but I'll be around after/between. Few things that have been posted that I want to comment more in depth on.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I’m really not sure what to make of Gorlak avoiding my actual objection a second time in favor of deflecting, but I’m in meetings for the next several hours so I’ll chew on it.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Is that always a situation in which he was scum or...? Because I'm not interested in your win condition unless it's town's. :Pyeah, but it's also the truest true of meta reads, so don't deflect, young padawan
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
We have absolutely to base scum powers on outside of our own role PMs and even that's a really weak comparison because some may have stronger powers and some weaker. This is the the most baseless base speculation in a game described like this one.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I never said I had a problem with the numbers. I said I had an issue with speculating on powers because we have nothing but our own role PMs to go on. We cannot speculate on the relative strength or weakness of the scum team based on individual sample sizes of one.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Walk me through what we know about scum powers, turmoil. I'm waiting.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Nope, it's dumb "look busy" effort and the fact that turmoil was also pushing it after Gorlak started it makes me wonder about the two of them together, d1 early vote aside. That's my hot take for now. Oh shit, I did not see this. So scum has extra information on top of team info since my guess is that their fake claims wouldn't overlap with real powers, unless Nat was feeling particularly evil.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Ooof, still slow going, I see. Well, there are a few things worth speaking out about, I guess. I'll try to spread them out for ease of quotability, though I wanted to say - kits, it was better when Frando was a joke on Fanto/Fando. tsk.I agree this is worth watching - but turmoil often gets voted out early for stuff like this as either alignment so I'm not sure it's super indicative.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
It's still early but if Fanto does just sit on that vote instead of zipping it around (or any single vote, on me or someone else), it's sus, 100%.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Now, the first thing that really stuck out to me so far:Gave up during that big post on VA? It was a handful of sentences. Fluff, yes; mountains from molehills, yes. But gave up? thinkingemoji This, tho:Fando, why are you answering for someone who didn't answer for themselves and explaining it away?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Come play with us sometime!What if I'm just worried about you?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Someday this is definitely going to be scum Fanto doing this on purpose but I dunno if that day is today. I'd lean mafia excitement over scum for now.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Been out corn mazing all day with the littles and am tired, but never too tired for a little mafia. I dunno about Fran's speculation about Fanto and VA, but I'm never good about picking up on fake arguments. I will say that this feels incredibly try hard:Like what a weird flex here - is there really this much to read into what comes off as a throwaway post? I know Fanto loves to make mountains but seems like a stretch.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Otherwise turmoil starting with a baseless vote is a thing to think about but not much on its own. Fran's extended joke about never having played before is the only other real thing happening and who knows what that means. I guess that's about it so far?
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
Natiko: Natiko makes me laugh every timeHey, job's a job! And I'd rather run into you at a Gamestop than most people, tbh.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
So general FYI for this game - I'm on the job market this year and for academics that's a whole full time job in and of itself so I AM PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE MY USUAL POSTING MACHINE SELF. I'm putting this in all caps because it might turn out to be a lie because we all know I have the self control of 45 on Twitter when it comes to these things. But I'm gonna try to not be 100% playing 100% of the day.
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Thread Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
I'm not sure which is funnier: Fran franning before the game has even started or Fanto using my post as a template. I think I have to come down on the side of loving all of you to death. XD
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Thread Vikings Season 5 [OT] A Clash of Kings (AND Queens) [Part 1]
Like most of y’all I think I’m far less enamored of this than I used to be. Three eps behind now. But Ivar’s actor has amazing potential. He is forced to be a caricature here most of the time but he works in more depth than the writing deserves.
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Thread CNN Business: America’s factories are getting crushed by Trump’s trade war, not the Fed
Maybe we could stop promoting candidates who have no experience in government whatsoever. On all sides. If that comes out of this, that's the thinnest silver lining, but I'll take it.
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Thread The Thread For Site Questions That Don't Need Their Own Thread
Wow, that's... so straightforward and simple that it never even occurred to me. Amazing.
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Thread The Thread For Site Questions That Don't Need Their Own Thread
Maybe this has been answered but due to the nature of the question... how do I search threads? It's probably obvious and I'm missing it. Like search JUST in one thread.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
We already started working on this - as part of review now, designers are supposed to write a description for games that are unusual or bastard to provide a bit more in the way of clues.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I also think our signups could go to 72 hours. I know everyone's scrambling to go and often we rush, but if we want to give the OT some visibility and get new players - or message occasional players and give them time to respond - 48 hours is not long.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Run a small game like that an see how it goes. Starting any experiment with a smaller game is usually a good way to test it out.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
That's really nice, !
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Era has a system for that, though. We don't. And that's part of the difference. We're also a much smaller community than Era - another part of the difference. And people also don't get removed from Era the first time they say something bigoted - that's a place I would like to be more harsh, because again, small community. Something like that would feel much much more personal here. Always bad, different impacts. I don't have a lot of time in the afternoons but I'll try to get back to the rest tonight. I'm still missing a few from before, too.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I am uncomfortable with tracking behavior for a number of reasons, only one of which is additional workload. Right now, already, we are: -writing a guide on behavior for players and mods -revamping these rules and making a place on OM to monitor them (people from the facilitator team will need to keep up with that) -redoing moderation guides on OM to coincide with changes This is new labor, on top of regular ongoing labor. Most of the facilitators are in here every day because there is a vast amount of background labor that takes place to keep things going, not to mention the fact that many of us also step up to run games. It's wearisome and we do it out of love for the game and the community. I ask you, all of you, to please not diminish that because you may not know everything that goes into this. We have jobs, or classes, or both; some of us have families on top of that; some are struggling with outside issues, but we still put in the work. Every new task has to be carefully considered, because it's not worth doing if we can't do it. That is a very real, material concern. We are stretched thin. We are tired. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought of quitting from time to time. But I'm also uncomfortable because there are major issues that can arise with behavior tracking. Here's one reason. These are arbitrary benchmarks. If someone has a bad game, they're marked for a year? Yikes. And is it only in-game behavior? What if someone is mad after the game? It happens. People get frustrated. So you air some frustration and it doesn't matter if you apologize - and mean it - your warning/action is already down in a spreadsheet somewhere. (And it's not just 'a year' that's an issue - almost any benchmarks we set would be relatively arbitrary. I mean, deciphering the notion of good behavior isn't exactly simple. It's been the purview of philosophy for millennia.) And what's reform? The new rules are aiming to be more strict; they should result in far more official warnings than we've had in the past, unless players conform quickly. So all the people who are actioned now have warnings in this database, which may very well lead to bad feeling about all the people actioned (or not) in the past who aren't in the database. It seems unfair. That increases the potential for hostility rather than decreasing it. And if people only get marked for in-game action, not action in spec or post-game, there's more bad feeling, due to more standards that can seem arbitrary. Especially if these things factor in for harsher future action. Such a system would also color things for new players, because it would absolutely come up in games. All our systems and our meta in general already does. Explaining to new players why Player X got removed quickly while Player Y only got a warning means new players see Player X as "bad." It generates ill feeling. I see our endgame here as reducing hostility overall. Tracking behavior like this has grave potential to foster it. I'm a teacher. I know the temptation to track students for mistakes, be they in class or in assignments, even if it's just in my head. But it's a huge pedagogical taboo because it creates bias and ill feeling. (There are teachers who do it anyway, because teachers are human and they make bad choices). Teachers need to be aware that sometimes students have bad days. That maybe they are struggling and it manifests that day. But you have to maintain good faith about them. And that's what I want to do here - maintain good faith about every player in our community. Personally, the only way I would entertain any sort of tracking system like this at all for the most egregious behaviors. Bigotry. Out-and-out, no gray area hostility. There is one player in recent memory who fit this criteria and he is the only example I can think of for tagging with a scarlet letter of sorts and to me, the only purpose would be to tell someone "you did this egregious thing and if you cross any other lines, ever, you're out, period." It will take us some time to adjust to new moderation guidelines. Let's see that adjustment in action and if we need to take an even harder line, this kind of discussion can potentially come back, but right now, I see too many potential pitfalls. Some other things; I lost the quote, but someone asked if we could substantiate the claim of more than one bad actor in an aggression situation and yeah, I can, with about half the playerbase in Game of Thrones. That game was a nightmare headache for most involved and I would like to think that with rules like those that are slowly being developed in this thread things could have been smoothed out early.I think that's a great point and it should be separated out with its own set of actions.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I'm not going to have time to do all the rest right now - but I want to start here at least. I agree with you that the text can be used as influence as we build stronger rules. But the reason I continue to bring up their community is to point out that what's said doesn't match with what's done and I think that speaks to the difficulty in moderating mafia in general. But I think this brings us back to the beginning of what constitutes sportsmanlike conduct. Maybe some examples: A. "This is a bad argument. If you're town, it's not helping." B. "I can't believe you think this will work. You're a fucking idiot." B here to me is unsportsmanlike and aggressive. A to me is fine. But this one's pretty obvious so I'll try to be more nuanced. A. "This argument is fucking stupid. If you're town, it's not helping." B. "This argument is dumb. No one's going to buy this. It's obviously wrong because of x and y." I would mark both of these as fine - but I would probably watch that discussion to see if it escalates, just in case, as it seems like it could veer out of control and get heated.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
this is either the best or worst (in a good way) theme for mafia and I'm already there for it I'll respond in depth later! I'm in the middle of some things now but I appreciate your thorough approach to this.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Bad days happen, but you didn't do anything bad here and certainly didn't make anything worse. Please reach out if you need anything, Fanto. Messaging you.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Here's what Sneeks posted that we worked on:(rule text itself in a moment) Something drastic did happen. We didn't go far enough. Okay, no problem. These are a draft. They aren't set in stone. But it's what we came to as a team. We had some agreements, some disagreements, and some hedges. If there is a "secret" document anywhere, it's that chat, where we talk about things, but we need that space to argue and hammer and work. So what's happening is that there are some disconnects, I think. First, the no-aggression rule at MU has been references a few times in this thread and y'all, I said it once and I'll say it again: that forum has some really terrible behaviors and not all games are moderated at all or at the same level. I never saw anyone replaced or killed or banned for in-game aggression there, though I did see people voluntarily leave games over it or put other players on ignore mid-game because there was no dealing with it otherwise. Where I did see people banned/actioned was for out of game behavior, including in the discord. So I don't think it's really the model we want to follow - at least I wouldn't. I met several great people there but I wouldn't hang out there regularly. Maybe it's changed since then. I don't know because I had no interest in going back to play. Second, there were a few other things: From Rover's post:This to me seems to be a major site of disagreement - and maybe first because it's not a 1-1 comparison. What I find antagonizing on Resetera when I am just being a person is not what I find antagonizing in a game about lying and manipulation and detective work. Those, for me, are not the same realm, and in reading some of the replies here, I think that's an unstated or less stated point of argument, so let me state it (or ask questions): -Is there a difference in how we act while playing vs not playing? I think for some there is. I can't speak for everyone though. -Is competitiveness or other outside factors a consideration? I really wonder if we couldn't figure out a way to occasionally run concurrent minis or something that are played in different "modes." These ideas may have to be resolved before we can harmoniously compromise on how that aggression rule looks. Next, Similarly I think this one is really hard to answer due to factions. What's constructive to scum/cult/neutral is not the same as town while people are IN the game and post-game it's too late to deal with in-the-moment situations. Since I got mentioned:This is true. I would not be offended if Stan said any of those things at me because I can read Stan's tone pretty well and I have a good sense of where his lines are and when he's actually mad. But there are a few other players with whom that's not the case. I have been offended. I have been upset and I have felt targeted. Once I knew it was part of the strategy and it still smarted. I thought about replacing out. But me as a player, my choice is to take it because that time didn't feel like targeted personal aggression and I don't want to replace out unless I absolutely must. Maybe there's a point at which it would be too much for me. I came close several times at MU. I cried. I hated it. But that was a different case. I was representing us so I kept going. Which leads me back to the question of whether or not people have different thresholds not only because of personality but also because of approach to the game. I know for me I'm super competitive and I get intense. It's why I post so much. Another post in a second, one more about addressing some comments, and then on to Sneeks' rules post on our behalf and Ket's suggestions.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I had so many things quoted that I broke the reply window so I had to move everything to a text file. I've had to do some catching up but I think that's a benefit here, because I haven't been involved in the most recent back-and-forth. But I do think I have identified a few disconnects that may help us, as a community, get closer to solving this. Which reminds me that one thing we haven't brought up is out of game behavior in general. There have been some very uncomfortable moments in spec chat with people judging others and some post-game blow-ups, and maybe that's something we should address too while we're at it. People read spec after the game; it can't be great to read pages and pages of people talking down your play. And there's no reason for that; it's not in the head of the moment or a tactic or out of real frustration or anything else. It's just people not thinking. I don't propose we SOLVE that one here. I think we have enough in front of us and I don't want to inflate the discussion unnecessarily. But it's something I hope we will think about prior to the next review thread. If a solution presents itself while we work on aggression? GREAT. If not, let's table it with a resolve to maybe remind each other? I'll start here at the end, since I think these are important points I want to underscore:THIS. We have a small core team and we've been doing a lot - changing documentation, workflows, tools, rules, systems for deciding, planning, everything. I think sometimes that gets lost in the shuffle because the community existed long before that, but this team didn't. We are trying. It is a lot. We are volunteers with different levels of time and skill and we often disagree with one another, too. But we try our best to work together in the best interest of keeping mafia games going. And as people, we get hurt feelings, too. Y'know?I think some of this will help and I'll explain why and how when I get to Ket's suggestion.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I saw some questions about game watchers and gamerunners come up and maybe it was answered and I missed it. I will address it here. ) is the designer(s) and maybe a co-mod if they take one on. Geno had Gorlak co-mod. I had cabot, who reviewed my first game, help me run it. Not everyone does this. But they are the keepers of the keys - the night actions, the side chats, events, etc. are extra support personnel in modchat. There is at least one person with Outer Mafia powers in modchat, for instance, and usually another person or two. They are there to catch turbos if the gamerunner is out or ostensibly to stop fights and problems - again, if the gamerunner is out. But game watchers are usually responsive, not providing general oversight; if something happens, they weigh in. Sometimes gamerunners have to decide if someone should be replaced for the activity rule or how to handle a problem. For instance:Things like this have absolutely happened in the history of our community. And while I won't get into specifics, watchers are there to help the gamerunner figure out what to do. Also to help if other rules are skirted but not openly broken, because that happens, too. There are so many gray areas. Being a gamerunner can feel overwhelming at times. People get mad or they don't post and you are sure they hate you, they hate the game, they hate everything - and this goes on for days. Watchers help keep morale up, but they do not usually overtly interfere. One of the changes we have proposed adjusts that. That's for the next (maybe last in this batch) post. Rover, as a moderator on this site, I'm going to tell you that this simply isn't always true. It isn't the firm line you paint here. Incidents are discussed, sometimes for extended periods, while people argue the same lines we are arguing here - context, instigation, etc. - as well as other factors like history and intent that are difficult to weigh. It's challenging. But there are plenty of times we have argued whether or not someone is being called stupid or if their ideas are and where lines are drawn around that - much as we are doing right now. And what may come as a surprise is that I'm usually an outlier in other directions there. I believe in the integrity of this forum. But I believe the game space is a variation on that and the rules shift. It's why we are allowed to internally moderate our own community for the most part. Okay. I think I'm caught up with the other stuff I wanted to address. Now onto proposed rule changes and maybe an attempt toward compromise.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Okay, these are the rule drafts that seem to be at issue (bolded sections in particular): X. Failure to adhere to a player's personal pronoun will result in a public warning. On the second offense another public warning will be given and a penalty will be applied to the offender's game priority. X. Please treat others as you would like to be treated: if someone makes a reasonable request to you, please comply with it. Failure to do so in some cases, such as aggressive posting, will result in gamerunner intervention. X. Mafia can be an intense and stressful game at times with situations becoming heated. Despite this, being overly hostile towards your fellow players is not allowed. If a player is caught name calling, using slurs, then action will be taken. First a private warning via PM will be given. Failure to stop the behavior will then result in a public warning and the offender will be given a priority penalty. If these behaviors continue despite the warning that player will be removed from the game. Gamerunners reserve the right to escalate punishment if needed. As I understand it, the questions are - reduce the pronoun penalty to two and continue to clarify aggressive behaviors determined by the gamerunner. Here's what Ket suggested. I'll take it piece by piece, with her original in italics and my comment below. Player Behavior If someone tells you something is bothering them = yes If someone shows = that is untenable in a mafia game. For some people who are more straightforward it's totally fine and doable - but again, this is a game about manipulation and sometimes people will put on an act for various reasons. It's also part of what makes "different thresholds" difficult and why we want mod intervention there. I get where this is coming from and in other contexts I absolutely support it! But in some ways, I liken the social aspects of mafia to say... LARPing. And someone may scream and cry and yell in a LARP but there has to be a way to determine if it's real or drama. We can't have code words here outside of talking to mods, so we negotiate context as best we can, as I said in a previous post. So I might suggest this: Treat players and gamerunners/watchers with respect. Players who are bothered by behavior they perceive as targeted aggression should make their positions clear in game, as everyone has a different threshold. If a player feels another player or players has crossed a line, they should contact the game mod team, who will be listed in the game's first post. I like the addition of "bigoted language" here. Reduces room for pushback. Do not belittle others for playing the game in a different manner than you. Some people might be new or have unorthodox methods of playing, but they do not need to be mocked for this. I actually think this increases gray areas and I would suggest something like: Please understand that different players have different play styles. Not everyone approaches mafia in the same way or wants the same things out of a game. If a player feels other participants are mocking their style or approach in a hostile or aggressive fashion, they should contact the game mod team, who will be listed in the first post. In these cases, I have adjusted the language to the impacted player reporting, for two reasons: 1. It reduces opportunities for backseat modding and assumptions about player interactions. 2. We have at times asked players who have been impacted by things if they want action taken and they have said no. I do feel like that's something we should respect in line with respecting play style. This preserves the hard line on things like misgendering and bigotry but allows negotiation in other areas. I want to add here a little something about what will happen, and adjust the language a bit. While the nature of mafia means that disagreements will happen, and play may get intense, please try to keep action as congenial as possible. Take a break if you feel heated. If someone is breaking a rule, you are encouraged to alert the game mod team. Reports about in-game action and behavior will be handled by the mod team, and the gamerunner will issue final rulings in the event of disagreements. And then I very much support the creation of a more specific guide for watchers/runners as has been suggested - and an ongoing OM thread might help build that as long as we can avoid discussing ongoing games. I think too including game watchers in this and making them a formal aspect of a mod TEAM means discussions are distributed and maybe if one mod is more "hardcore" there are other voices weighing in with different perspectives, which may help. But I want to stress I'm not speaking for the entire facilitator team here - these are my personal suggestions toward compromise.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I'm sorry I haven't been posting - I am drowning, I have way too much to do, and I'm very overwhelmed right now - but I am reading and I have been helping to work on developing the new rules. I'm trying to do as much as I can and I want to say I really appreciate everyone's contributions here. We need these perspectives and we need to do this together.
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Thread Is the extreme sensual/violent promotional material for the Last of Us II exploitative or effective or both?
These are different games. I don't know how you could even begin to compare them beyond the basics.
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Thread Is the extreme sensual/violent promotional material for the Last of Us II exploitative or effective or both?
This is a good and nuanced take which is being sadly overwhelmed by all the "what do you expect?" style posts.
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Thread Is the extreme sensual/violent promotional material for the Last of Us II exploitative or effective or both?
Yep, that was a hard day, to be honest. I really wanted to play DBH until I started to see how it was developing and I eventually just chose to skip it entirely. I'm not sure yet with TLOU2. I'm an outlier and I don't love the first. I don't think it's nearly as deep or meaningful as many like to say and I found the gameplay largely repetitive. This one looks like it may actually be a better narrative experience, but after some of the footage, I'm really torn. That something makes sense doesn't make it any more or less fitting; there are still choices to be made about focus and depiction. For instance, the film Irreversible goes too far in a number of places, though everything that happens makes sense. It's a good film but never something I'd watch again. That same kind of intensity spread out over hours and hours is... difficult to consider.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
man running errands in the midwest is a LOT harder when you're actually running/walking/not driving. GET WALKABLE, SMALLER AMERICAN CITIESI do really like this rule of theirs to be honest - no speculation on or discussion of subbing out is allowed, period (until after a game or in spec, at least).
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
In fact, looking now at MU's code of conduct, I think it's pretty clear their lines are WAY different than ours. If you have to have a rule that says "if someone asks you to stop discussing graphic sexual or violent content, you should stop" then uh It makes me wonder, though, if some of this (not all; there are definitely moments of open hostility when things get heated) does just come down to personality differences. For instance: Stan I and both just swear a lot. It's like our punctuation. It's how we talk. Having been in voice chat with Stan, can also confirm this is just how we . So I know sometimes with Stan, someone has said he's got an attitude or whatever and I tend to do a doubletake because I don't see it at all; that's just Stan. (I didn't see this instance in HvV2 that's being referenced; as support and mostly OM team there, I only read closely when there was something I had to address, so I'm speaking generally). So part of this question becomes: how can we reconcile personality quirks with behavior rules? And I do mean actual quirks here - like just swearing a lot. Using myself as an example, I get incredibly intense about games and should probably be told to dial it back more. I can think of times when I got really heated and intense and should have dialed it back. Yes, I am a very serious player but I also know the lines. Sometimes it takes intervention though to snap someone out of it. That's not a quirk; that's crossing a line. So how do we reconcile?
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Oh man that was probably my worst moment, period. And that's a good example between quirk and line-crossing.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Still catching up, but:The problem with all warnings being public has already been addressed, but I want to bring something else to the table here. Sometimes as a gamerunner we contact a player to talk to them. Not to officially warn them, but just to get them out of the thread for a cool down, or to let them know, perhaps, that while THEY don't feel like they're being too aggressive, someone is perceiving them as such. Or sometimes we do issue a private warning if we know the player may be likely to push back - maybe they're heated, maybe they're just someone who pushes back, who knows (I am someone who pushes back on everything, so I categorize myself here). If these are done publicly, they may end up derailing the thread or the problem might escalate and that's definitely a path to replacement or modkill when instead something can just be handled privately. I don't mean to shrug off the suggestions here. I agree that some things need to change and that we've had some repeated issues. But I'm also telling you, from the perspective of someone who has been in all roles possible here - player, gamerunner, mod support, even Era mod - there are some solutions that are simply untenable. I firmly agree on public warnings/public action for misgendering. That way it's in the open and it serves as a reminder to all other players. For aggression? It has to be a softer decision. Sometimes it's best to step in and say something publicly and sometimes it's not. I have been, as a gamerunner, in both situations. It absolutely needed to be a choice based on participants and circumstances. Natiko and I are in agreement on this, I think - and perhaps because I know we have both seen occasions when things needed to be handled publicly and moments when they couldn't be. And we cannot have other players always reporting problems publicly in thread because backseat modding is a very real problem that can create confusion, ill-feeling, and even impact game mechanics. Players reminding each other not to misgender or saying "calm down" though isn't backseat modding. Those things are fine and encouraged. There are moments when it's better for other players to say "hey, y'all chill out" than for it to come from on high as it were. But we do need some solution. I'm thinking through some ideas but I don't know if they are tenable. Oof, there are some people at MU who are definitely hostile in ways that wouldn't fly here at all and moderation largely seems hands off in at least the games I've played. The... I think it was the finals? when I played, one scum player finally subbed out because a teammate was overtly abusive in scumchat.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Don't think anyone argued against more defined rules. The issue is just how to operationalize that to leave space for the myriad of wild situations that have arisen. Because whew, myriad is an understand. I'm working on a longer post in draft but I gotta run errands so that'll come later. So here's a couple things - and this speaks to public warnings, too, with an example. First, we can't stop someone from posting but I like the general idea of a penalty box. We'd just have to figure out if they are replaced/killed if they ignore it. But second, in that example Fanto brought up from LB, I was publicly warned... but I didn't see it until I got later in the thread. It was like a page or something later and I was responding as I went. So public warnings or this kind of thing - putting someone in a box - has to also I think be coupled with a message, which I would have seen, whereas I didn't see the public message to cool it until x number of posts later. So again a lot of this just comes down to working out details, how we handle things, etc. Anyhow, more when I return.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I think perhaps you're conflating the two different things I was referencing, or maybe I didn't make my point clearly. Let me explain further. I think here, the "petulant child" is over the line, yes. We'll agree. I think we all, as a group, need to learn to let things go/ignore instead of engaging directly if something annoys us. I think generalized swearing about a game state is not a big deal, and I raise that because it's the kind of thing that we do hear about sometimes as gamerunners. So while we are working to adjust rules, I think it's important to establish behaviors that are just part of how folks are and behaviors that aren't. Or, to put it another way, things that can and should be controlled vs asking people to change less impactful personality traits.
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Thread Fuck Stats classes and classes like it in regards to textbooks.
Depends. If it’s a boxed course set by the department, it’s not the professor. And depending on school/department culture, professors are either encouraged to go cheap or use this Pearson garbage. In my program, we have informal cost caps and when we review syllabi, we look at cost and how much an instructor is using a book. I remember buying a $200 book as an undergrad and never using it. I was enraged. And then they put that money into the dumbest shit. My university is about to knock down the last affordable housing near campus and build new stuff for... absolutely no reason. To spend money and make things prettier, I guess.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
Defaulting to they for everyone can itself be a form of erasure. For some, who have fought to be recognized for their whole selves - and a variety of factors can lead to fighting for personhood, especially in online spaces - that can feel like just another form of misgendering. That's not universal but at the same time, it's just replacing one default for another without looking at the individual. Honestly, I wish Era listed pronouns under the avatar. MU does, and Waypoint. It's nice to have it right there.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
The reason I suggested priority penalties (because it was me) is this - so that you have context and can consider and then discuss or reject, whatever. I'm not married to it. But my thinking was: Even if we modkill in a particular game*, a priority penalty recognizes that someone is having trouble following the rules and maybe needs to sit with that for a game or two. It's not just "you broke a rule and you're out," but it's an extended time in the penalty box. That largely impacts one player, who now may miss games they wanted to play in also, whereas a modkill can impact the entire game. Which leads to my * above - I do think we're all a little cautious about the modkill unless absolutely necessary because a modkill can really ruin a whole game in the right (wrong?) circumstance. I'm so tired, y'all. I finished a dissertation chapter this week, released the final survey for my third year of my ongoing (other, separate) study, and worked on my job stuff along with everything else so I hope this was coherent. I also think Sorian raises a really good point about backseat modding. I absolutely think players should remind each other but we need to do that without backseat modding about actions or sniping at the gamerunner. I do think maybe they should also contact the gamerunner in case it gets missed though. Maybe this is why it should be a public warning? I'm all for rule-ifying lunch or other alternatives though I think that should be a soft penalty for a while as an adjustment. I noticed that for a while we really avoided lynch a LOT and then it sorta faded back in.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
And I wanna say that I KNOW this community and I know people who fuck up aren't doing it on purpose. This community is full of good, kind, caring people. Maybe everyone doesn't always get along or have the same play philosophies but we care about each other as people. Which is part of why it's really important that we get this right.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I do think three warnings, or even two, is too many. One rare reminder should be enough. I’m getting settled here so I’ll try to post a bit more soon.
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Thread MafiEra Season 14 Review |OT| No, really. Can anyone name this character?
I haven't read the whole thread yet - I'm working through some thoughts, but I want to say something as firmly as I can. I know there are some folks here who don't think pronouns should be a big deal. That's their experience. I've been an internet-person for a long, long time and I understand the "default" is to assume male. But it is the goddamned year of some lord two thousand and nineteen and the world has moved on. Don't default. Treat your fellow players like actual people. Being welcoming and cordial (except when, y'know, we're accusing each other of lying) is how we build and maintain community. I agree with Ketkat that our punitive measures are often underused. We rarely want to modkill players. And often, warnings are a mix of public and private, and that can confuse things, too. So maybe the real issues are: -Warning structures are not consistent -Punitive measures are not consistently employed -This raises a question of whether we need different punitive measures for anything beyond egregious and purposeful flauting of the rules We have to modkill for PM reveals. That breaks the game. And we should for people who egregiously ignore the rules. But maybe we should have a separate system for mistakes? Hear me out on this - as a teacher, at least, I have different systems for students who screw up and make mistakes and those who, say, buy a paper off the internet and try to turn it in. Now if someone cannot manage to learn the rules? Maybe they graduate from one tier to the next. But this stuff has to stop. Take a screenshot of the roster. Keep it on your phone. Keep a list up on a post-it. Figure it out. Do better. I'll read the rest of the thread later.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
I love her. I love him also. you shut upThis is amazing. We should definitely do it.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
I have tried so hard to get husbro interested but he's content with me just yelling about the games, I guess. And running D&D. Review thread will be soon. We are organizing our ducks into a row.
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Thread The antagonist of the last game you played offers you chocolate milk. Do you accept?
The last game I played was Life Is Strange: Before the Storm and I think the antagonist is really the lies we tell ourselves and others, so... yeah, sure, make 'em go down easier.
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Thread Heroes Vs. Villains 2 Mafia [OT] - A Clash of Light and Darkness
Geno or Gorlak will post the flip when they are available. Day 8 Final Votes: (7 votes) Lokiduck - Brazil - Natiko - Sorian - TheChuggernaut - Vincent Alexander - Cat - (2 votes) Sawneeks - Stantastic - (1 votes) Faddy - (0 votes) Absolutbro, Aeleus, Muffin: 77 : 27 : 27 : 25 : 19 : 19 : 14 : 13 : 12 : 7 : 7 : 5 : 1
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Thread Alec Holowka (Night in the Woods, TowerFall) accused of sexual assault [Update: Alec Holowka has reportedly passed away] [See staff posts/threadmarks]
Speaking as an individual user here and not as a mod-- I get the compulsion to look away. It's a lot sometimes, to confront all the horrors in the world; sometimes it's nice to just think about and talk about games or movies or whatever. But I think it's already too easy for us to ignore things that don't directly impact us. I think filters just make that even easier.
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Thread Look after your hecking teeth guys.
I brush and floss and do all the things you're supposed to do and I still have terrible teeth due to genes. I've spent more than 25k on my teeth in the last 15 years. It's rough and I can never get ahead. Dental insurance is a racket in the US.
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Thread [Verge] The fight against toxic gamer culture comes to the classroom
No one said it was an expressive art form. But programs and platforms - and indeed all tech creations - aren't separate from the humans who create them, either. I reiterate my book suggestion here.
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Thread [Verge] The fight against toxic gamer culture comes to the classroom
Technology - the internet, the smartphone, YT's algorithms - didn't spring forth fully formed from the head of Zeus. It's a self-perpetuating issue. People have biases; biases get coded into platforms; biases get reinforced. Safiya Noble's book on this is particularly good, I think. Bo is great - an essential scholar for where we are now - and I'm not at all surprised they'd be targeted in this way. I hate that this is my reaction. But I'm in an academic working group on digital aggression and the first thing we did - before working on anything at all! - was figure out how to protect everything we were doing, every access point we were creating, etc. Nothing got made if it wasn't safe. Preparing for the inevitable has become part of the scholarship and I'm so jaded over it. Somewhat ironically, I'm at slightly more conservative campus and we don't get quite as much overt pushback in our humanities games courses, which are filled with coders and designers. We've been really lucky, compared to what I hear from others in the field.
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Thread [Verge] The fight against toxic gamer culture comes to the classroom
We need information literacy much, much earlier in schools, but schools are always scrambling to catch up. And too many teachers (and parents) aren't paying enough attention to what kids are watching/reading. Since the platforms won't regulate, intervention has to come from elsewhere.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
i am 100% in for Russian Doll mafia, as a player, as a co-designer, whatever you need
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
gotcha, donna!
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Spec requests have been granted.
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Thread Heroes Vs. Villains 2 Mafia [OT] - A Clash of Light and Darkness
you sweet summer child In HvV, I put up 1200 posts myself and Sorian was right behind me.
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Thread Heroes Vs. Villains 2 Mafia [OT] - A Clash of Light and Darkness
Now I'm glad I'm not in this because I would be forced to try to outpost everyone on principle.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
actually, please wait, discussions have been extended
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
I'll chat with you about this.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
are you going to eat people
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
You should just put me in. Sure, I reviewed it and know the design, but does that matter here?
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Probably not since I haven't finished it yet! What else you waiting for?
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
I don't think Blarg would mind having been an NPC-type character. Or we could call him a guest. Y'all, don't give Sorian anything. And don't let anyone lick you.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
good luck, y'all.
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Thread Are you okay with sequels to games with multiple endings ignoring your choices?
Wow, I'm really surprised at the results. I absolutely hate this in games.
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Thread Image Mafia: Yellow Version
I WAS PULLING FOR YOU SO HARD AND THEN YOU HAD IT AND I SAID AHHHHHHHH but I know how this shit goes and the doubt sinks in and mafia does their thing and THEY ARE ALL MONSTERS but you were golden
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Tomorrow is good.
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
sign up properly and I will! It only takes a few days anyway
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
she/her EDT monkey let me do some wolfing
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
6 people for ONUW, need at least two more! (or six more!)
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Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
: 8 - 12 Fireblend: ONUW Sign up now! Pronouns Timezone Preferred nickname (if applicable)
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Thread What's the deal with antifa?
It's utter madness and it'll be repeated regardless of what actually emerges (and has emerged so far). tbh, I don't watch a lot of explainer videos, but this one was great. As a researcher myself who's studied the narrative of antifa in the US, this is pretty spot on. So are all the thread comments about scapegoating. I can't speak for antifa elsewhere; I don't study antifa specifically and I'm not in Europe. My studies are on social media movements and for me post-election antifa narratives and misinformation, that was just a particular case. But it's very clear what's happened with antifa in the US and how that narrative of convenience was created. Here's what I'd add to the media treatment presented in this video: mainstream media's attempts to be objective shore up discussions of antifa's violent positions. When mainstream venues seek quotes and positions from far-right actors who are promoting hyperbolic positions, those positions spread. Add to that the other factors the video introduces re: presentation of protest, quotes from LEOs, etc., and it's easy to see how antifa has become the literal boogeyman for the right and a cover for white supremacists.
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Thread Stabbing Spree in Garden Grove, CA Leaves 4 Dead, 6 Victims
First thing I thought of: tomorrow, folks will be saying, "see, this is why gun control doesn't matter, they'll just use knives!"
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Thread Have you ever edited a Wikipedia page?
I add sources at times, and context. Once I had an edit war on the page for hamburgers though because my boss kept changing it to add pork burgers and I kept deleting her terrible opinions.
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Thread I've been vegan for over 6 years and I'm eating the new Impossible Whopper at Burger King
what
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Thread I've been vegan for over 6 years and I'm eating the new Impossible Whopper at Burger King
holy shit, I don't drink soda anymore but I'd make an exception for surge!
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(23432513)

Thread Annapurna Pictures -- parent company of video game publisher Annapurna Interactive -- facing bankruptcy (Donut County, Outer Wilds, Ashen, & more)
bless, they are one of my favorites and I love that this is their update!
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(23410726)

Thread Universal's "The Hunt" is about "a dozen MAGA types who wake up in a clearing and realize they are being stalked for sport by elite liberals."
This is an obnoxiously bad idea.
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(23384853)

Thread Study: Men on Tinder do not appear to be intimidated by highly educated women
I do think there are some inherent issues with studies like this for these reasons. I am always no-fun Monkey when discussing research methods that don't take larger demographics questions and cultural issues seriously into consideration.
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(23384055)

Thread Study: Men on Tinder do not appear to be intimidated by highly educated women
Seems prudent to mention this:I would not consider this generalizable data, but it does create a study model that could be used in other regions to check for cross-cultural applications.
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(23283494)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Hooray! Monday is even better.
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(23278133)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
I’m not fussed about game size. I do want to say that tomorrow I’m driving all day so I just hope for a Sunday start.
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(23255202)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
giffygang giffygang giffygang
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(23258095)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Retro gonna die first.
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(23251514)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
Me me me gif! Dr. Monkey Gif She/her Nickname: monkey EDT
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(23205079)

Thread ResetEra Mafia |OT5| Don't Mind My Breadcrumbs (Accepting New Players/Sign-ups Open!)
you've discovered our insidious plan!
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(12824547)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Yeah, I had regrets immediately before I found out I was dead but it was too late. :( oh well! So it goes.
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(12735499)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
this is my will, LOL
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(12666727)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
it's SUPER UNLIKELY that Godfather cannot have both powers, so he cannot be scum.
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(12666745)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
It's tone-based but Chuggernaut is coming off as really townie.
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(12666756)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Like, again, for a new player, he's super chill here.
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(12666373)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
sigh
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(12666383)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
he just seems so reasonable tho
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(12666452)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
lol fair
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(12666264)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
NO YOU HAVE TO STAY HERE AND SUFFER WITH ME. I GOT STRONGARMED INTO THIS, DAMMIT.
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(12666278)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
yikes, double post but i feel that strongly about it i guess
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(12666567)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I'd vote you before I voted him, just so you know.
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(12666352)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
NO I LIKE YELLING
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(12666153)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
i wanna lie on the floor and just pretend it's all over, k
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(12665668)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
it's a good name, btw XD
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(12666238)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
legit laughed out loud at how you framed that I don't think I can no lynch. I think I gotta choose between kits and Chuggs.
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(12666252)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
NO YOU HAVE TO STAY HERE AND SUFFER WITH ME. I GOT STRONGARMED INTO THIS, DAMMIT.
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(12665778)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Tell me what you're seeing in kits' voting record.
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(12666035)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
PogChamp was all over Fran, though, and I don't see why scum would do that, especially new scum. What's the motivation?
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(12665798)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
hmm. Chuggernaut not moving may be a wrinkle - if I'm part of the scum team that night, probably Chuggernaut does the kill.
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(12665815)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Especially since Geno was not x-shot.
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(12666073)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
It wasn't just voting him, it was a HUGE CASE that sticks in my craw.
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(12665827)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Yeah, there's just a lot of balls in the air on that one.
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(12666094)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
like PogChamp WORKED for that. Was he in any danger?
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(12665615)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Nope, I just kinda want all the flips, lol
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(12665636)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
oh, whoops, I botched the vote
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(12665652)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
anyone want to say anything before I fix it?
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(12662581)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Yeah, I mean, he was being TP. I can see how it can happen and maybe how it it didi, so no judgment. I might have gone right along with it in the moment. But from my outsider POV, he and Trigger rang very town to me.
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(12665405)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Like if there were no tracker thing, I would vote you, AB. Your record is awful. If there's weird scum fuckery and lies going on, it's you and Vere. But I don't think it is. Vere believing TWE is a wrinkle for me. Scum, if we don't find you, please nk me tonight, and with my thanks.
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(12665161)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I'd like to know what you think about all this, Vere.
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(12664169)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
It's thin, but it's something. There are some things that don't quite match what I've seen (like he's not pushing you?) and some fair points. My question back to you is: if it meant the game, would you bet the game on that case?4
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(12663154)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
No, I get that the Trigger vote looked scummy but it also just looked clumsy. It doesn't matter, really. AbBro, what do you think about today?
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(12665520)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
If it's Chuggernaut, well done, dude. If it's kits, well done PogChamp in particular, and nice job replacing, kits. If it's TWE, you'll probably get away with it at this rate. I don't want to be the decider. Let me go back and look at my analysis.
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(12665539)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I think this is the first I've gotten to play with you, though! I hope we play again.
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(12665564)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I think I have to go with the worst voting record of the unknowns, which would be Chuggernaut. Nothing personal, my dude. I hope you keep playing with us.
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(12665318)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
it is the most stressful thing in the land and you usually coordinate votes
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(12665070)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I don't know. I really don't. Coming in late is hard. Honestly. I think I would rank TWE as best bet. I think his behavior today has been strange. I expect that's where I'll vote. I consider Verelios basically confirmed (if I'm wrong, RIP) so I'd like to hear from him again.
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(12665593)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
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(12665342)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
YES, NOTHING MAKES SENSE, OKAY, IT'S NOT JUST ME
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(12661465)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Tbh I dunno why the Puns lynch happened at all except for his personal style but I missed the heat of that moment. Feel the same about the Trigger lynch. But that’s benefit of having been outside the game and not in it. I will consider a bit and make my order I guess. Struggling a little here.
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(12659021)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Yeah, and the dorito vendor more even than the also-ninja makes me think this game MUST have a tracker. There's no point to that role otherwise. None.
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(12659289)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Same question to you I put to TWE, Chuggernaut: how can Godfather be the roleblocker?
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(12659035)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
With maj so low, I'm generally reluctant to vote. It's not you, it's me.
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(12659581)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
But he did, twice? Or is there a specific detail you want?
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(12659600)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I dunno if it's #newplayer or #wtfery honestly, but I'd still put him below kits and TWE for now, pending more from them - what has you worried here specifically?
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(12656905)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I mean, I get scumread for the way I talk and think so I feel you.
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(12658268)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
^^^^^^this is what I'm talking about I would not expect him to be any other way, tbh.
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(12657518)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
bro, it is everyone all the time, i'm just used to feeling some kind of way about it now
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(12657542)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Can you point out where they are trying to drive discourse? And with Godfather, how this isn't in character for him? I don't know if you can answer that or if you've played with him before, but if you show me what you're seeing, at least I can consider it, since I have.
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(12658061)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
This is kind of like the AbBro situation, though - how do you square the double lynch power with the apparent roleblocker? Like you can have reads but they also have to align with concrete information in the thread. Do you think he actually wasn't the double lyncher? Do you think he'd have two rb shots on top of that? Do you think there's two scum left?
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(12658090)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Let me be clear; I think the double lynch power reads scummy as fuck but in the gamestate as it is? I don't see how it be unless we are all very, very wrong.
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(12657128)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
kits, if I may, I will say that there is nothing in my potential scumread of you that is generated from feelings or anything else; it's a simple lack of content at the time. I had strong feelings about your predecessor's behavior and votes. I have nothing from you that is concrete, and that is the issue for me. I understand you are a replacement, but.
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(12658667)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Calm down, Palmfather, I think it's almost mathematically impossible for you to be scum, but you can't change my heart, even with wikilinks XD
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(12655740)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
No, I know that. What I’m remarking on is TWE including it in his post and how that impacts the way I read him as honest or lying.
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(12655536)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I dunno, guess I just haven’t seen/noticed such a detail before in a role PM.
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(12626971)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
One coherent post about today and your claim at least, not all broken up in spurts, and maybe more about suspects.
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(12654934)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
The detail about being left with mafia and losing is a good one. I feel like that’s a harder detail to fake. Hmm. I gotta chew on this.
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(12629863)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I find it very hard to believe that TWE saw Tearable's posts but not Vere's posts and still came into our gossip chat convinced AB was scum. I am not convinced by his posts today. Yet at the same time claiming bp and possibly skipping the nk is some risky shit to try; would it be necessary?
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(12652910)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Where you at right now, Vere?
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(12651894)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
It's hilarious if you guys know each other and didn't realize you did.
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(12623226)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
So is that everyone claimed then? Godfather - double lynch TWE - bp kits - vanilla Chuggernaut - vanilla Monkey - gossip AbBro - vanilla Vere - tracker
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(12627085)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I don't, tbh, because we're already going to have to go through and consider potential switches on all their targets, but the claim would really help us narrow this down. I get that I'm kind of an outsider, but it's letting me look at this in pieces without attachment, which is kinda nice.
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(12625564)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Gonna wanna see some solving from kits and some clarity from TWE, I think, and I will look back at Chuggernaut, too.
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(12629685)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I wish the people I'm looking at would give me something so I can make up my mind between them, since it's probably unlikely they're both scum.
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(12623325)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Yeah, I dunno, I figure of those I'd be most likely to go TWE or kits. I wasn't scumreading TWE but the claim today was ill done, not sure why it happened that way. Didn't get scum vibes of Pogchamp particularly but one of the vanillas is lying, and Chuggernaut appears to be doing a bit more than kits, at least. Really not sure. Wish I'd seen more of this live.
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(12649184)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Good morning! Why kits over TWE?
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(12623340)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
if we've got a cop, for the love of god, claim before the last ten minutes if you're on the block, please.
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(12653311)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Chuggs feels least likely to me, from the vote history. Kits, maybe, but I just didn't get that feeling from her predecessor. TWE not answering multiple lines is BIG on my radar right now.
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(12623149)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
The song with the line "a holiday for secret cops" and just bp? You got a raw deal.
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(12622642)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
In our gossip chat, you said he had scummy day ends. It was quite notable because you listed all the players but him and then in the next post said oh right, AB, yep, he's probably the scum. I do agree that he had scummy day ends; see my graphic. But the evidence does seem to point to that not being the case, with Vere's track, which came after Geno was dead and there was apparently only one scum remaining, per his earlier clarification. I also think we need to know if you were just BP and the rest of your claim, please?
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(12623176)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
I'd guess it's one shot not bp forever? no? yes?
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(12621965)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
TWE, I tagged you in a post earlier; do you see it?
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(12622739)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Been thinking about this and I can buy it. I didn't see your first half earlier, though, I think. You mean that scum got invited? Yes, rac seemed to think so. He posted that with kits, so by then he'd chatted with TWE, AbBro, and Vere. Which would probably mean TWE if he was right, but it was possibly just paranoia.
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(12608546)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Thanks, Vere. Curious what TWE has to say, then.
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(12618795)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
It's happened before but it's not usual. He would not have been the person I'd have considered coming into the day; from second half of the night phase, when I came in, through vote analysis and all else, I had him as town. Two things throw a bit of a wrench into that and the claim is one.
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(12599852)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
For my part, I think if Vere is not a tracker, the game is lost. This game is setup to almost require a tracker and there's been no CC. I have to trust Vere.
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(12608569)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
Indeed, hence the pressing. :)
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(12607045)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
tbh there is absolutely nothing in that post that makes me think it was anything but serious. I doubt I'm allowed to quote it but to give the gist, rac said he was afraid he was going to be killed and you said no, they might kill you because you're basically confirmed town and scum wouldn't benefit from taking someone less confirmed. While I'm asking questions, , did you report out previously that you'd tracked AbBro and he didn't move? , did you know that result?
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(12606800)

Thread They Might Be Giants Mafia |OT| Everybody Dies Frustrated And Sad, And That Is Beautiful
That many shots + the scum stack d1 should pretty much make me town. Scum did try to kill rac again again, too; he was very close to being lynched alongside Stu d2. Scum gossip is not impossible, but here it's unlikely. Scum having two RB shots in fact pretty much means it's not a JOAT.